Klingon Word of the Day for Tuesday, June 29, 2021 Klingon word: Sam Part of speech: noun Definition: shawm Source: qepHom 2018 This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh@kli.org).
Klingon Word of the Day for Tuesday, June 29, 2021 Klingon word: Sam Part of speech: noun Definition: shawm Source: qepHom 2018 _______________________________________________ (Lieven, qepHom 2018): This is a loanword from Federation Standard. A shawm is a loud medieval and Renaissance double-reed wind instrument, the forerunner of the oboe. See https://caslabs.case.edu/medren/medieval-instruments/shawm/ (KGT 75): Wind instruments (there is no overall term for them) range from the simple flute or fife (Dov'agh), generally crafted from a bone, to the highly complex {meSchuS}. [...] The instrument's pitch and timbre are modified by fingering strategically placed holes in the tubing and by moving the hands in various ways (to move the fingers in this way is to {Heng}). (HQ 10.2:7): The verb {Heng} finger holes in a musical instrument" is a general term. When a specific finger is being referred to, one of the finger verbs is usually used… I.e. {Sen} & {rIl} use the thumb, {SIq} use the index finger, {qay} use the second finger, {qew} use the ring finger, {qan} use the pinkie. SEE: rIl play (a wind instrument) (v) - (HQ 10.2): This is a brass technique, not a flute technique. Most typically it is used with {gheb} as the object. PUN: {gheb rIl} "Gabriel"! SEE ALSO: gheb horn (n) nItlh gheb trumpet (n) -- Voragh, Ca'Non Master of the Klingons Please contribute relevant vocabulary from the last year or two. I’ve fallen behind in updating my files and adding cross-references for related words.
Am 29.06.2021 um 17:24 schrieb Steven Boozer:> Klingon word: Sam
Part of speech: noun Definition: shawm Source: qepHom 2018 _______________________________________________
(Lieven, qepHom 2018): This is a loanword from Federation Standard.
Watch Marc Okrand play the shawm during qepHom 2018: https://www.instagram.com/p/BqUbwJcAFc2/ -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.tlhInganHol.com http://klingon.wiki/En/QepHom2018
FWI, that thing might be a {Sam}, but it is NOT a shawm. They didn’t have valves in Medieval and Renaissance times, and a shawm had ONE bell, not one for each note, and a shawm is a wooden instrument, not a metal one. charghwI’ ‘utlh (ghaH, ghaH, -Daj)
On Jun 29, 2021, at 2:07 PM, Lieven L. Litaer <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
Am 29.06.2021 um 17:24 schrieb Steven Boozer:> Klingon word: Sam
Part of speech: noun Definition: shawm Source: qepHom 2018 _______________________________________________
(Lieven, qepHom 2018): This is a loanword from Federation Standard.
Watch Marc Okrand play the shawm during qepHom 2018: https://www.instagram.com/p/BqUbwJcAFc2/
-- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.tlhInganHol.com http://klingon.wiki/En/QepHom2018 _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
Am 30.06.2021 um 00:15 schrieb Will Martin:
FWI, that thing might be a {Sam}, but it is NOT a shawm. They didn’t have valves in Medieval and Renaissance times, and a shawm had ONE bell, not one for each note, and a shawm is a wooden instrument, not a metal one.
Oh that is interesting, and basically, you are right. BUT... The thing that Okrand is playing here really is *some kind of* shawm. I am not an expert, but I'll try to explain: The German word for shawm is Schalmei, and that originally referred to what you desscribed, the mideval thing made of wood with only one pipe. But over time, that device developped, was combined with more pipes and was made of metal. So maybe that has a different name in English, possible. I don't know. I guess Maltz also does not know. But anyhow: This device we see here is no doubt called "Schalmei" in German, the English word we found for it is "shawm" and Maltz just called it {Sam}. So whatever you call that device Okrand plays in the video, Maltz calls it {Sam}. (And honestly, I'm curious to find out what it'S called in English). -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.tlhInganHol.com http://klingon.wiki/Word/Sam
To my previous email of below, I must make some addition after speaking to the requester of this word for shawn. Th point is, like Will said, a shawn is a medieval wood blow instrument. The thing that Okrand plays in the mentioned video is not such an instrument, it's one technically called "Martins-trumpet", but due to its similar sound of a shawn, everybody in Germany calls it a shawn. This usage has become so common that nobody would call it incorrect. So important for us Klingonists is to know that indeed {Sam} is "shawm" and in first place refers to that medieval instrument, but it can also, in addition, be used for the "martin's trumpet" (which everybody calls a shawn in Germany).
Am 30.06.2021 um 00:15 schrieb Will Martin:
FWI, that thing might be a {Sam}, but it is NOT a shawm. They didn’t have valves in Medieval and Renaissance times, and a shawm had ONE bell, not one for each note, and a shawm is a wooden instrument, not a metal one.
Am 03.07.2021 um 14:40 schrieb Lieven L. Litaer:
BUT... The thing that Okrand is playing here really is *some kind of* shawm.
I am not an expert, but I'll try to explain: The German word for shawm is Schalmei, and that originally referred to what you desscribed, the mideval thing made of wood with only one pipe. But over time, that device developped, was combined with more pipes and was made of metal.
So maybe that has a different name in English, possible. I don't know. I guess Maltz also does not know.
But anyhow: This device we see here is no doubt called "Schalmei" in German, the English word we found for it is "shawm" and Maltz just called it {Sam}.
So whatever you call that device Okrand plays in the video, Maltz calls it {Sam}.
(And honestly, I'm curious to find out what it's called in English).
-- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.tlhInganHol.com http://klingon.wiki/Word/Sam _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
-- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.tlhInganHol.com http://klingon.wiki/Word/Sam
So maybe that has a different name in English, possible. I don't know. I guess Maltz also does not know.
I'm assuming that this word isn't well-known among Klingons, so that one would have to provide some explanation of what one means when communicating with a general audience. Among those Klingons who do know what it is, their understanding would probably vary depending on how they were introduced to the term. For our purposes, I suppose the safest gloss to go with is whatever was used when posing the question to Okrand. //loghaD ________________________________ From: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org> on behalf of Lieven L. Litaer <levinius@gmx.de> Sent: Saturday, July 3, 2021 3:03:48 PM To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org Subject: Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Klingon Word of the Day: Sam To my previous email of below, I must make some addition after speaking to the requester of this word for shawn. Th point is, like Will said, a shawn is a medieval wood blow instrument. The thing that Okrand plays in the mentioned video is not such an instrument, it's one technically called "Martins-trumpet", but due to its similar sound of a shawn, everybody in Germany calls it a shawn. This usage has become so common that nobody would call it incorrect. So important for us Klingonists is to know that indeed {Sam} is "shawm" and in first place refers to that medieval instrument, but it can also, in addition, be used for the "martin's trumpet" (which everybody calls a shawn in Germany).
Am 30.06.2021 um 00:15 schrieb Will Martin:
FWI, that thing might be a {Sam}, but it is NOT a shawm. They didn’t have valves in Medieval and Renaissance times, and a shawm had ONE bell, not one for each note, and a shawm is a wooden instrument, not a metal one.
Am 03.07.2021 um 14:40 schrieb Lieven L. Litaer:
BUT... The thing that Okrand is playing here really is *some kind of* shawm.
I am not an expert, but I'll try to explain: The German word for shawm is Schalmei, and that originally referred to what you desscribed, the mideval thing made of wood with only one pipe. But over time, that device developped, was combined with more pipes and was made of metal.
So maybe that has a different name in English, possible. I don't know. I guess Maltz also does not know.
But anyhow: This device we see here is no doubt called "Schalmei" in German, the English word we found for it is "shawm" and Maltz just called it {Sam}.
So whatever you call that device Okrand plays in the video, Maltz calls it {Sam}.
(And honestly, I'm curious to find out what it's called in English).
-- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.tlhInganHol.com http://klingon.wiki/Word/Sam _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
-- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.tlhInganHol.com http://klingon.wiki/Word/Sam _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
Am 04.07.2021 um 18:22 schrieb loghaD:
I'm assuming that this word isn't well-known among Klingons, so that one would have to provide some explanation of what one means when communicating with a general audience.
Among those Klingons who do know what it is, their understanding would probably vary depending on how they were introduced to the term.
For our purposes, I suppose the safest gloss to go with is whatever was used when posing the question to Okrand. It is confusing indeed, because the meaning of the word differs between English and German. I have learned now that in Germany, this instrument is called a shawm even though it's not one. I am sure there are many English words as well that refer to a thing although it's not the correct term, and only non-English speakers are confused about it.
So, for the usage of the word {Sam}, I think it's okay to say that it may refer to both things: a) its literal meaning of the original medieval shawn, and b) the martinstrumpet which is called "Schalmei" (shawm) in Germany. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.tlhInganHol.com http://klingon.wiki/Word/Sam
participants (5)
-
Felix Malmenbeck -
Klingon Word of the Day -
Lieven L. Litaer -
Steven Boozer -
Will Martin