2018 qep'a' Proverb Contest
2018 is the 25th anniversary of the Power Klingon audiobook by Marc Okrand and Barry Levine. In it we learned about Replacement Proverbs ("to replace lost respect with newly earned respect after one has been embarrassed in a public setting") and Secrecy Proverbs ("used in situations where you want to show that you can keep a secret under *any* conditions"). Several years ago, KLI members helped to discover a previously unknown Replacement Proverb (jagh yIbuStaH! "Focus on the enemy!") and Secrecy Proverb ('Iw HIq yap tu'lu'be'. "Sufficient bloodwine does not exist."). In conjunction with the Klingon Language Institute's qep'a' cha'maH vaghDIch, we are holding a competition to seek more proverbs. Each member of the KLI (paid or guest) is eligible to submit either a Replacement Proverb or a Secrecy Proverb. Those who have purchased a Supporting Membership to the qep'a' may submit both a Replacement Proverb and a Secrecy Proverb. Attending Members are allowed to submit two of each type, for a total of four proverbs. Entries may be saved and revised at any time until the contest closes June 25. The submissions will then be anonymously reviewed by a panel of experts, and a list of the best candidate proverbs will be given to Marc Okrand. He will announce a new Replacement Proverb and a new Secrecy Proverb at the qep'a' in July. Full contest rules, and a link to the submission page, are at https://www.kli.org/proverb_contest/rules/ -- Alan
On 24 May 2018 at 21:01, Alan Anderson <alan@kli.org> wrote:
2018 is the 25th anniversary of the Power Klingon audiobook by Marc Okrand and Barry Levine. In it we learned about Replacement Proverbs ("to replace lost respect with newly earned respect after one has been embarrassed in a public setting") and Secrecy Proverbs ("used in situations where you want to show that you can keep a secret under *any* conditions").
Several years ago, KLI members helped to discover a previously unknown Replacement Proverb (jagh yIbuStaH! "Focus on the enemy!") and Secrecy Proverb ('Iw HIq yap tu'lu'be'. "Sufficient bloodwine does not exist.").
In conjunction with the Klingon Language Institute's qep'a' cha'maH vaghDIch, we are holding a competition to seek more proverbs. Each member of the KLI (paid or guest) is eligible to submit either a Replacement Proverb or a Secrecy Proverb. Those who have purchased a Supporting Membership to the qep'a' may submit both a Replacement Proverb and a Secrecy Proverb. Attending Members are allowed to submit two of each type, for a total of four proverbs.
Entries may be saved and revised at any time until the contest closes June 25. The submissions will then be anonymously reviewed by a panel of experts, and a list of the best candidate proverbs will be given to Marc Okrand. He will announce a new Replacement Proverb and a new Secrecy Proverb at the qep'a' in July.
Full contest rules, and a link to the submission page, are at https://www.kli.org/proverb_contest/rules/
Why does Maltz keep remembering replacement proverbs and secrecy proverbs? Maybe next year he can remember some toasts, or common lines for rejecting a suitor, or famous curse warfare insults, or even phrases said on QI'lop or Empire Union Day. -- De'vID
On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 12:05 PM, De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> wrote:
Why does Maltz keep remembering replacement proverbs and secrecy proverbs? Maybe next year he can remember some toasts, or common lines for rejecting a suitor, or famous curse warfare insults, or even phrases said on QI'lop or Empire Union Day.
The appeal of the contest is not just to have Marc Okrand like your sentence, but also to make it canonical Klingon. Part of the conceit of those proverbs is that there's a small, closed set of canonical ones that you're supposed to use rather than just inventing one on the spot. On the other hand, insults, toasts, and the like don't need to be canonized to be used or understood properly. There are known examples, but you can also just make one up. A better equivalent might be a contest to invent a new canonical idiom or slang word, although it would probably be harder to judge.
On 25 May 2018 at 19:31, nIqolay Q <niqolay0@gmail.com> wrote:
The appeal of the contest is not just to have Marc Okrand like your sentence, but also to make it canonical Klingon. Part of the conceit of those proverbs is that there's a small, closed set of canonical ones that you're supposed to use rather than just inventing one on the spot. On the other hand, insults, toasts, and the like don't need to be canonized to be used or understood properly. There are known examples, but you can also just make one up. A better equivalent might be a contest to invent a new canonical idiom or slang word, although it would probably be harder to judge.
Fine, but surely there are more than just the two expressions to reject a suitor given in Power Klingon. There may not be a small, closed set of phrases one might use, but there must still be some relatively common and well-known ones. I must go paint my nails? I'm getting a cast made of my forehead? I'm about to leave for a friend's Rite of Ascension? Ditto for toasts. -- De'vID
On May 24, 2018, at 2:01 PM, Alan Anderson <alan@kli.org> wrote:
2018 is the 25th anniversary of the Power Klingon audiobook by Marc Okrand and Barry Levine. In it we learned about Replacement Proverbs ("to replace lost respect with newly earned respect after one has been embarrassed in a public setting") and Secrecy Proverbs ("used in situations where you want to show that you can keep a secret under *any* conditions").
Several years ago, KLI members helped to discover a previously unknown Replacement Proverb (jagh yIbuStaH! "Focus on the enemy!") and Secrecy Proverb ('Iw HIq yap tu'lu'be'. "Sufficient bloodwine does not exist.").
In conjunction with the Klingon Language Institute's qep'a' cha'maH vaghDIch, we are holding a competition to seek more proverbs. Each member of the KLI (paid or guest) is eligible to submit either a Replacement Proverb or a Secrecy Proverb. Those who have purchased a Supporting Membership to the qep'a' may submit both a Replacement Proverb and a Secrecy Proverb. Attending Members are allowed to submit two of each type, for a total of four proverbs.
Entries may be saved and revised at any time until the contest closes June 25. The submissions will then be anonymously reviewed by a panel of experts, and a list of the best candidate proverbs will be given to Marc Okrand. He will announce a new Replacement Proverb and a new Secrecy Proverb at the qep'a' in July.
Full contest rules, and a link to the submission page, are at https://www.kli.org/proverb_contest/rules/ <https://www.kli.org/proverb_contest/rules/>
chay’ vIttlhegh vInob? DaqvamDaq pagh vIlegh (‘ej mabwIj vIngaQHa’moHpu’.): https://www.kli.org/proverb_contest/
-- Alan _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
On 27 May 2018 at 21:31, Daniel Dadap <daniel@dadap.net> wrote:
chay’ vIttlhegh vInob? DaqvamDaq pagh vIlegh (‘ej mabwIj vIngaQHa’moHpu’.):
I'm also unable to access this page. -- De'vID
On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 4:50 PM, De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> wrote:
On 27 May 2018 at 21:31, Daniel Dadap <daniel@dadap.net> wrote:
chay’ vIttlhegh vInob? DaqvamDaq pagh vIlegh (‘ej mabwIj vIngaQHa’moHpu’.):
I'm also unable to access this page.
Do you get a blank page? A 404? A "Cannot access this server"? When I click the link, even logged out, I get a page with the rules and the countdown timer. qurgh
On May 31, 2018, at 12:58, qurgh lungqIj <qurgh@wizage.net> wrote:
On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 4:50 PM, De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> wrote:
On 27 May 2018 at 21:31, Daniel Dadap <daniel@dadap.net> wrote:
chay’ vIttlhegh vInob? DaqvamDaq pagh vIlegh (‘ej mabwIj vIngaQHa’moHpu’.):
I'm also unable to access this page.
Do you get a blank page? A 404? A "Cannot access this server"?
When I click the link, even logged out, I get a page with the rules and the countdown timer.
When logged out, I see what you describe, and a message that one must be at least a KLI Guest Member to participate. When logged in, I jut see the site banner, the title “qep'a' Proverb Contest”, and nothing else.
qurgh
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On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 2:10 PM, Daniel Dadap <daniel@dadap.net> wrote:
https://www.kli.org/proverb_contest/
When logged out, I see what you describe, and a message that one must be at least a KLI Guest Member to participate.
When logged in, I jut see the site banner, the title “qep'a' Proverb Contest”, and nothing else.
Nothing else? No footer saying "This page was last modified..." or label at the bottom identifying "Theme: FirmaSite"? Do you have some sort of CSS blocking or override active? There's a lot of JavaScript on the page -- do you have it disabled, or might an antimalware plugin be interfering with it? -- ghunchu'wI'
On May 31, 2018, at 16:44, Alan Anderson <qunchuy@alcaco.net> wrote:
On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 2:10 PM, Daniel Dadap <daniel@dadap.net> wrote:
When logged out, I see what you describe, and a message that one must be at least a KLI Guest Member to participate.
When logged in, I jut see the site banner, the title “qep'a' Proverb Contest”, and nothing else.
Nothing else? No footer saying "This page was last modified..." or label at the bottom identifying "Theme: FirmaSite"? Do you have some sort of CSS blocking or override active? There's a lot of JavaScript on the page -- do you have it disabled, or might an antimalware plugin be interfering with it?
That was written before qurgh fixed it. I don’t know why it didn’t come through until after it was fixed, but it’s working for me now.
-- ghunchu'wI'
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On Thu, May 31, 2018, 19:59 qurgh lungqIj, <qurgh@wizage.net> wrote:
On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 4:50 PM, De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> wrote:
On 27 May 2018 at 21:31, Daniel Dadap <daniel@dadap.net> wrote:
chay’ vIttlhegh vInob? DaqvamDaq pagh vIlegh (‘ej mabwIj vIngaQHa’moHpu’.):
I'm also unable to access this page.
Do you get a blank page? A 404? A "Cannot access this server"?
When I click the link, even logged out, I get a page with the rules and the countdown timer.
I get a page with the title "qep'a' Proverb Contest" but nothing else. -- De'vID
On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 2:17 PM, De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, May 31, 2018, 19:59 qurgh lungqIj, <qurgh@wizage.net> wrote:
On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 4:50 PM, De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> wrote:
On 27 May 2018 at 21:31, Daniel Dadap <daniel@dadap.net> wrote:
chay’ vIttlhegh vInob? DaqvamDaq pagh vIlegh (‘ej mabwIj vIngaQHa’moHpu’.):
I'm also unable to access this page.
Do you get a blank page? A 404? A "Cannot access this server"?
When I click the link, even logged out, I get a page with the rules and the countdown timer.
I get a page with the title "qep'a' Proverb Contest" but nothing else.
Okay. Give it a try now. qurgh
On Thu, 31 May 2018 at 20:29, qurgh lungqIj <qurgh@wizage.net> wrote:
On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 2:17 PM, De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> wrote:
I get a page with the title "qep'a' Proverb Contest" but nothing else.
Okay. Give it a try now.
So I did get a page with the ability to make a submission. The only problem is that, after I hit the "Save" button, nothing seems to happen? It's not clear to me whether the submission had indeed been made, or whether the page is stuck. -- De'vID
If you refresh the page, are your phrases still shown? The system is setup so you can still go in and edit/add phrases after saving them. It's not a "fill it out and submit it once" system. qurgh On Mon, Jun 18, 2018, 8:33 AM De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 31 May 2018 at 20:29, qurgh lungqIj <qurgh@wizage.net> wrote:
On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 2:17 PM, De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> wrote:
I get a page with the title "qep'a' Proverb Contest" but nothing else.
Okay. Give it a try now.
So I did get a page with the ability to make a submission. The only problem is that, after I hit the "Save" button, nothing seems to happen? It's not clear to me whether the submission had indeed been made, or whether the page is stuck.
-- De'vID _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
On Mon, 18 Jun 2018 at 14:49, qurgh lungqIj <qurgh@wizage.net> wrote:
If you refresh the page, are your phrases still shown? The system is setup so you can still go in and edit/add phrases after saving them. It's not a "fill it out and submit it once" system.
Yes, the entry boxes are still filled if I refresh. It's just not obvious from the UI that the entries have actually been submitted. -- De'vID
On Thu, 24 May 2018 at 21:02, Alan Anderson <alan@kli.org> wrote:
Full contest rules, and a link to the submission page, are at https://www.kli.org/proverb_contest/rules/
I assume the winners have been announced? For my entry, I tried to get {qogh vItuQHa'moHpu'} turned into an official secrecy proverb (I've always thought it strange that it wasn't, since it's perfect for it), and also to force Okrand into clarifying whether {tuQmoHHa'} is an error (since it's supposed to be {tuQHa'moH} "by the book"). -- De'vID
I don't know who won, but Brad Wilson told me on Facebook (Learn Klingon group) that the new replacement proverb is <Qap tlham>. As for the secrecy proverb, he didn't remember it perfectly so he couldn't say. 2018-07-23 12:11 GMT+02:00 De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com>:
On Thu, 24 May 2018 at 21:02, Alan Anderson <alan@kli.org> wrote:
Full contest rules, and a link to the submission page, are at https://www.kli.org/proverb_contest/rules/
I assume the winners have been announced?
For my entry, I tried to get {qogh vItuQHa'moHpu'} turned into an official secrecy proverb (I've always thought it strange that it wasn't, since it's perfect for it), and also to force Okrand into clarifying whether {tuQmoHHa'} is an error (since it's supposed to be {tuQHa'moH} "by the book").
-- De'vID
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Neat. I like Qap tlham. Seems like something I would say on a regular basis as I’m often dropping things. My replacement proverb entry was a bit of a mouthful; I was trying to play with the double meanings of both “pov” and “ram”: DaHjaj pov, ram quv 'e' vIwuqlaw'chugh, vaj DaHjaj ram, povbogh quv'e' vISuq, 'ej law'qu'! My secrecy proverb entry was a bit simpler: SovchoHpa' vay' vIHoHba' jay'!
On Jul 23, 2018, at 07:40, Aurélie Demonchaux <demonchaux.aurelie@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't know who won, but Brad Wilson told me on Facebook (Learn Klingon group) that the new replacement proverb is <Qap tlham>.
As for the secrecy proverb, he didn't remember it perfectly so he couldn't say.
2018-07-23 12:11 GMT+02:00 De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com>:
On Thu, 24 May 2018 at 21:02, Alan Anderson <alan@kli.org> wrote: Full contest rules, and a link to the submission page, are at https://www.kli.org/proverb_contest/rules/
I assume the winners have been announced?
For my entry, I tried to get {qogh vItuQHa'moHpu'} turned into an official secrecy proverb (I've always thought it strange that it wasn't, since it's perfect for it), and also to force Okrand into clarifying whether {tuQmoHHa'} is an error (since it's supposed to be {tuQHa'moH} "by the book").
-- De'vID
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For the secrecy proverb, the winning entry was {vabDot Sovbe' targhwIj} (even my targ doesn't know), by DeSDu' (Jack Bradley). tlhaQqu' vIttlheghvam! Qapla' DeSDu'! :) 2018-07-23 15:34 GMT+02:00 Daniel Dadap <daniel@dadap.net>:
Neat. I like Qap tlham. Seems like something I would say on a regular basis as I’m often dropping things.
My replacement proverb entry was a bit of a mouthful; I was trying to play with the double meanings of both “pov” and “ram”:
DaHjaj pov, ram quv 'e' vIwuqlaw'chugh, vaj DaHjaj ram, povbogh quv'e' vISuq, 'ej law'qu'!
My secrecy proverb entry was a bit simpler:
SovchoHpa' vay' vIHoHba' jay'!
On Jul 23, 2018, at 07:40, Aurélie Demonchaux < demonchaux.aurelie@gmail.com> wrote:
I don't know who won, but Brad Wilson told me on Facebook (Learn Klingon group) that the new replacement proverb is <Qap tlham>.
As for the secrecy proverb, he didn't remember it perfectly so he couldn't say.
2018-07-23 12:11 GMT+02:00 De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com>:
On Thu, 24 May 2018 at 21:02, Alan Anderson <alan@kli.org> wrote:
Full contest rules, and a link to the submission page, are at https://www.kli.org/proverb_contest/rules/
I assume the winners have been announced?
For my entry, I tried to get {qogh vItuQHa'moHpu'} turned into an official secrecy proverb (I've always thought it strange that it wasn't, since it's perfect for it), and also to force Okrand into clarifying whether {tuQmoHHa'} is an error (since it's supposed to be {tuQHa'moH} "by the book").
-- De'vID
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_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
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On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 6:11 AM, De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> wrote:
For my entry, I tried to get {qogh vItuQHa'moHpu'} turned into an official secrecy proverb (I've always thought it strange that it wasn't, since it's perfect for it), and also to force Okrand into clarifying whether {tuQmoHHa'} is an error (since it's supposed to be {tuQHa'moH} "by the book").
He's talked a little about something similar before. I suspect {tuQmoHHa'} was originally an error that was retconned to be a slang usage. (Wouldn't be the first time!) <http://klingonska.org/canon/1997-11-30-news.txt>
A problem comes in because some of these forms (that is, some of these verb + suffix combinations) are so common, they seem to, in the minds of some Klingons anyway, act as if they were simply verb and not verb + suffix at all. This seems to happen only when the suffix in question is -moH "cause." Maltz reports having heard both quv'eghmoH "he/she honors him/herself," which follows the expected order (verb-Type 1-Type 4: quv "be honored," -'egh "oneself," -moH "cause") as well as the weird quvmoH'egh "he/she honors him/herself," in which the Type 1 suffix -'egh "oneself" follows the Type 4 suffix -moH "cause," an impossible formation unless the speaker is considering the verb to be quvmoH "honor" and not quv "be honored." Speakers who do this seem to be aware that they are breaking the rules, so they are doing it for rhetorical effect.
http://klingonska.org/canon/1997-11-30-news.txt Perhaps the distinction between {qogh tuQmoHHa'} and the secrecy proverbs is that the former is only used in casual, slang-appropriate situations, whereas the latter are a bit more formal. Another possible distinction is that the secrecy proverbs are used in one static form without any variations, whereas {qogh tuQmoHHa'} is an idiom that can be slotted into a sentence as necessary. For instance, I don't think you can say a secrecy proverb on someone else's behalf, but {qogh tuQmoHHa'pu' ghaH} "you can trust him with your secret" seems legitimate enough. Or {qogh DatuQmoHHa''a'?} "can you keep a secret?"
Last month, the Klingon Language Institute hosted {qep'a' cha'maH vaghDIch}, its twenty-fifth annual conference. As part of the celebration, Dr. Marc Okrand reviewed submissions from KLI members and "discovered" two new proverbs: a Replacement Proverb and a Secrecy Proverb. The newly identified {qa'meH vIttlhegh} Replacement Proverb, submitted by Alan Anderson (ghunchu'wI'): Qap tlham. This is translated as "Gravity works." It implies something like "gravity is doing its job" or "gravity is functioning properly." The newly identified {pegh vIttlhegh} Secrecy Proverb, submitted by Jack Bradley (DeSDu'): vabDot Sovbe' targhwIj. The usual translation is "Even my targ won't know!" It's more literally "in addition, my targ will not know," with an assumed reference to others not knowing in the first place. Congratulations to the two who unearthed these treasures. Of course, the real winners are the members of the Klingon-speaking community, with a richer collection of expressive phrases to use and enjoy. janSIy
participants (9)
-
Alan Anderson -
Alan Anderson -
Aurélie Demonchaux -
Daniel Dadap -
David Holt -
De'vID -
mayqel qunenoS -
nIqolay Q -
qurgh lungqIj