Expressing "painted with his blood"
When the the verb DIj "paint with a pigment stick" was explained, we learned that it can be used for producing a visual image, even if no paint or pigment stick is involved, for example with a pencil, or with a device or computer software. Assume we want to say: "while the injured commander was dying, he drew on the ground with his blood, the location of enemy ship". How would we write it ? Would the following be correct ? {jagh Duj Daq cha'meH la', yav DIjta'; DIjmeH 'IwDaj lo'ta'} "the commander, in order to show the location of the enemy ship, painted the ground; in order to paint he used his blood" Now, because I *know* someone is itching to say "you don't paint the location of the enemy ship".. This is an example used to ask, how we actually specify, "the what is being used to draw something". So, there is no actual need for someone trying to be smart, saying crap like "the commander would just say the location instead of painting it". ~ m. qunen'oS ironic.. trying to appear smart, yet proving to be the idiot..
X-meH Y lo’ is the method I’ve always leaned towards: “for the purpose of drawing a map, the captain used his blood.” Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 24, 2019, at 11:17, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
When the the verb DIj "paint with a pigment stick" was explained, we learned that it can be used for producing a visual image, even if no paint or pigment stick is involved, for example with a pencil, or with a device or computer software.
Assume we want to say: "while the injured commander was dying, he drew on the ground with his blood, the location of enemy ship". How would we write it ?
Would the following be correct ?
{jagh Duj Daq cha'meH la', yav DIjta'; DIjmeH 'IwDaj lo'ta'} "the commander, in order to show the location of the enemy ship, painted the ground; in order to paint he used his blood"
Now, because I *know* someone is itching to say "you don't paint the location of the enemy ship"..
This is an example used to ask, how we actually specify, "the what is being used to draw something".
So, there is no actual need for someone trying to be smart, saying crap like "the commander would just say the location instead of painting it".
~ m. qunen'oS ironic.. trying to appear smart, yet proving to be the idiot..
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On 4/24/2019 11:17 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
Assume we want to say: "while the injured commander was dying, he drew on the ground with his blood, the location of enemy ship". How would we write it ?
Would the following be correct ?
{jagh Duj Daq cha'meH la', yav DIjta'; DIjmeH 'IwDaj lo'ta'}
"the commander, in order to show the location of the enemy ship, painted the ground; in order to paint he used his blood"
I have no problem with your proposed sentence. I'd drop the *DIjmeH* as redundant. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
I would use {ngoH}, meaning "smear" (TKD) or "paint using fingers" (KGT). I don't believe we have any canonical sentences using this word, but from the original gloss being "smear", I strongly suspect it takes the "ink" one uses as its object. jagh Duj Daq [cha'/ghItlh/wev/ngu'/'ang/'agh]meH la', yavDaq 'IwDaj ngoHta'. //loghaD ________________________________ From: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org> on behalf of mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2019 17:17 To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org Subject: [tlhIngan Hol] Expressing "painted with his blood" When the the verb DIj "paint with a pigment stick" was explained, we learned that it can be used for producing a visual image, even if no paint or pigment stick is involved, for example with a pencil, or with a device or computer software. Assume we want to say: "while the injured commander was dying, he drew on the ground with his blood, the location of enemy ship". How would we write it ? Would the following be correct ? {jagh Duj Daq cha'meH la', yav DIjta'; DIjmeH 'IwDaj lo'ta'} "the commander, in order to show the location of the enemy ship, painted the ground; in order to paint he used his blood" Now, because I *know* someone is itching to say "you don't paint the location of the enemy ship".. This is an example used to ask, how we actually specify, "the what is being used to draw something". So, there is no actual need for someone trying to be smart, saying crap like "the commander would just say the location instead of painting it". ~ m. qunen'oS ironic.. trying to appear smart, yet proving to be the idiot..
Felix mentioned it, but here’s more information on this brand-new verb from qepHom 2018: {wev} “sketch, doodle, draw [quickly]”: [Lieven < MO, posted 10/18/2018]: Maltz says there is a verb {wev} that means “sketch” or “doodle”. The object of this verb is the image that's drawn. The notion is that it is a quick drawing, not a careful one. In English, the word “doodle” implies that the person doing the doodling is not paying attention to what is being drawn or sketched. The person is at a meeting or on hold on the phone and is bored perhaps. The Klingon word does not necessarily have this connotation. Sometimes the picture that results from {wev}-ing is identifiable (so if you say {DI'raq vIwev}, hopefully you end up with a picture that is identifiable as a sheep-like animal). But sometimes the result is not easily identifiable or namable — it's just circles or squiggles or jagged lines or a mishmash of things. In that case, the “picture” can be called a {yay}. <…> Although the implement used to {wev} the drawing/sketch/doodle could be anything, it is not common to use {wev} if the implement is a {rItlh naQ}. -- Voragh Ca'Non Master of the Klingons From: Felix Malmenbeck I would use {ngoH}, meaning "smear" (TKD) or "paint using fingers" (KGT). I don't believe we have any canonical sentences using this word, but from the original gloss being "smear", I strongly suspect it takes the "ink" one uses as its object. jagh Duj Daq [cha'/ghItlh/wev/ngu'/'ang/'agh]meH la', yavDaq 'IwDaj ngoHta'. ________________________________ From: mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com<mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com>> When the the verb DIj "paint with a pigment stick" was explained, we learned that it can be used for producing a visual image, even if no paint or pigment stick is involved, for example with a pencil, or with a device or computer software. Assume we want to say: "while the injured commander was dying, he drew on the ground with his blood, the location of enemy ship". How would we write it ? Would the following be correct ? {jagh Duj Daq cha'meH la', yav DIjta'; DIjmeH 'IwDaj lo'ta'} "the commander, in order to show the location of the enemy ship, painted the ground; in order to paint he used his blood" Now, because I *know* someone is itching to say "you don't paint the location of the enemy ship".. This is an example used to ask, how we actually specify, "the what is being used to draw something". So, there is no actual need for someone trying to be smart, saying crap like "the commander would just say the location instead of painting it".
Am 24.04.2019 um 17:17 schrieb mayqel qunen'oS:
Would the following be correct ?
{jagh Duj Daq cha'meH la', yav DIjta'; DIjmeH 'IwDaj lo'ta'}
This is corect, although you should check if the usage of {-ta'} is necessary here. If you are using it as a past tense, then it's not needed. The expression of "doing X with Y" has been translated very often with {lo'}, so that's a good way to go. Quite ironic to mention this now with the parallel discussion of "canon" and DSC, I'd like to point to the abdication treaty that L'Rell had to sign in DSC ep. 2.03. It also used the phrase {qI'meH 'Iw lo'lu'}. Of course, we all agree that this is not canon, but it's a good example based on Okrand's usage. :-) See the entire text and a screenshot here: www.klingonwiki.net/En/DSC203 -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.de
On 4/24/2019 11:47 AM, Lieven L. Litaer wrote:
Am 24.04.2019 um 17:17 schrieb mayqel qunen'oS:
Would the following be correct ?
{jagh Duj Daq cha'meH la', yav DIjta'; DIjmeH 'IwDaj lo'ta'}
This is corect, although you should check if the usage of {-ta'} is necessary here. If you are using it as a past tense, then it's not needed.
It's necessary if they're completed actions. If you're looking back on the situation and describing it as if it's already happened, then the perfective is necessary. If you're describing it as if you're in the middle of the action, you cannot use perfective.//Either could be used here, depending on things like whether the teller is trying to set the stage for a story or simply relate past facts. // -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
There is also the question of the appropriate word for creating a map. Is a map “drawn”? Or is it “written”? We see a similar issue concerning pictographic writing systems as to the correct verb. I’m reminded of the Byzantine Orthodox practice that holds that their iconography is a writing, an not drawing, and that icons are not drawings nor art. One “writes” and icon. Similarly, since a map is made to convey specific spatial-locative information, rather than being some type of artistic depiction, one could argue that the map is ghItlh. —jevreH (who has spent too much time in the Semiotics section of the library) Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 24, 2019, at 11:59, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
On 4/24/2019 11:47 AM, Lieven L. Litaer wrote:
Am 24.04.2019 um 17:17 schrieb mayqel qunen'oS: Would the following be correct ?
{jagh Duj Daq cha'meH la', yav DIjta'; DIjmeH 'IwDaj lo'ta'}
This is corect, although you should check if the usage of {-ta'} is necessary here. If you are using it as a past tense, then it's not needed. It's necessary if they're completed actions. If you're looking back on the situation and describing it as if it's already happened, then the perfective is necessary. If you're describing it as if you're in the middle of the action, you cannot use perfective. Either could be used here, depending on things like whether the teller is trying to set the stage for a story or simply relate past facts.
-- SuStel http://trimboli.name _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 12:47 PM Jeffrey Clark <jmclark85@gmail.com> wrote:
There is also the question of the appropriate word for creating a map. Is a map “drawn”? Or is it “written”?
We see a similar issue concerning pictographic writing systems as to the correct verb. I’m reminded of the Byzantine Orthodox practice that holds that their iconography is a writing, an not drawing, and that icons are not drawings nor art. One “writes” and icon.
Similarly, since a map is made to convey specific spatial-locative information, rather than being some type of artistic depiction, one could argue that the map is ghItlh.
—jevreH (who has spent too much time in the Semiotics section of the library)
{ghItlh} doesn't just mean "write words", it has a broader meaning like "to make a mark on". You can probably use either verb for making a map.
participants (7)
-
Felix Malmenbeck -
Jeffrey Clark -
Lieven L. Litaer -
mayqel qunen'oS -
nIqolay Q -
Steven Boozer -
SuStel