Remember the Klingon dialogue between Uhura and the Klingon from Star Trek Into Darkness? Do you also remember that the final cut was pieced together and retranslated and re-subtitled? On YouTube you can still watch the original cut (with wrong subtitles though): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9AFnBkIRwo The Klingon Wiki has the dialogue and explanations about this scene: http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/ST12 A few of those lines were still unclear. For my Klingon course that I will teach in September and November this year (in Switzerland), I was preparing a discussion and translation task about these dialogues, and I think I understood one of the lines that have a (?) behind it. The Wiki has: {jIHvo' neH De' jIbup (?).} = "from me want data ..." This doesn't make much sense. I listened to the dialogue again and I think what's being said is: {jIHvo' nIHDI' jIbup.} = "When he stole from me, I quit." This makes a lot of sense in the whole dialogue. I think I will correct the dialogue in the Klingon Wiki. Any idea about the other sentence? {tlhInganna' naQpu'a' SoH?} = "You are a definite klingon. (?)" I do think the dialogue is in correct Klingon, but perhaps it's something quite different, though I don't get the verb in the middle, a suggestion: {tlhIngan Da-???-pu''a' SoH?} = "Did you [naq?] a Klingon / the Klingon(s)?" The syllable in the middle sounds like naq or naQ, but I can't figure it out. Also, is the second line plausible? {mughojmoH parmaqqaywI'.} = "My romantic partner has taught me." Maybe this is referring to the Klingons' surprise upon her speaking Klingon, but the sentence seems a bit out of context. Could the verb be something different here? Maybe the romantic partner has betrayed, wronged, abandoned, stolen from, ... her – but none of the verbs fit. Apologies if this has all long been figured out years ago after the movie; maybe the Klingon Wiki page isn't up-to-date. I'd like to present a complete dialogue to my (future) students. - André
Am 28.08.2017 um 15:21 schrieb André Müller:
{jIHvo' nIHDI' jIbup.} = "When he stole from me, I quit."
This makes a lot of sense in the whole dialogue. I think I will correct the dialogue in the Klingon Wiki.
If you do so, then please still add a note that it is unclear or not confimed.
Any idea about the other sentence? {tlhInganna' naQpu'a' SoH?} = "You are a definite klingon. (?)"
I've listend to this so many times, but just can't understand it. But I also doubt that he says something like {tlhIngan}. But I just don't know.
{tlhIngan Da-???-pu''a' SoH?} = "Did you [naq?] a Klingon / the Klingon(s)?"
The end is very clear, {-pu''a' SoH.} For the beginning, I hear something that may also start with {Da-} or {DI-}, which may also be possible. The number of syllables is also clear, so the closest I can get is {DI-ya-na-laQpu''a' SoH}
Also, is the second line plausible? {mughojmoH parmaqqaywI'.} = "My romantic partner has taught me."
Maybe this is referring to the Klingons' surprise upon her speaking Klingon, but the sentence seems a bit out of context.
True, he didn't ask for that. Instead of ghoj, maybe she says ghoS, which would make sense too: {mughoSmoH parmaqqaywI'.} "he made me come/go here" -- Lieven L. Litaer aka Quvar valer 'utlh Grammarian of the KLI http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/ST12
jatlh André Müller
A few of those lines were still unclear. For my Klingon course that I will teach in September and November this year (in Switzerland), I was preparing a discussion and translation task about these dialogues, and I think I understood one of the lines that have a (?) behind it.
The Wiki has: {jIHvo' neH De' jIbup (?).} = "from me want data ..." This doesn't make much sense. I listened to the dialogue again and I think what's being said is:
{jIHvo' nIHDI' jIbup.} = "When he stole from me, I quit."
I suggest {jIHvo' nIH. De' jIbop.} "He stole from me. I am concerned with the information."
This makes a lot of sense in the whole dialogue. I think I will correct the dialogue in the Klingon Wiki.
Any idea about the other sentence? {tlhInganna' naQpu'a' SoH?} = "You are a definite klingon. (?)"
I do think the dialogue is in correct Klingon, but perhaps it's something quite different, though I don't get the verb in the middle, a suggestion: {tlhIngan Da-???-pu''a' SoH?} = "Did you [naq?] a Klingon / the Klingon(s)?" The syllable in the middle sounds like naq or naQ, but I can't figure it out.
I don't have any great ideas on this one. I would love to have {nej} in there except for the {-pu'} and the pronunciation.
Also, is the second line plausible? {mughojmoH parmaqqaywI'.} = "My romantic partner has taught me."
Maybe this is referring to the Klingons' surprise upon her speaking Klingon, but the sentence seems a bit out of context. Could the verb be something different here? Maybe the romantic partner has betrayed, wronged, abandoned, stolen from, ... her – but none of the verbs fit.
This scene has already been cut together and had subtitles added that do not match the lines. I believe there was a line that the Klingon said when filmed that has already been removed. Here is how I imagine the original was supposed to go: U: Who is the leader? tlh: How do you speak Klingon? U: My lover taught me. U: I have come here to look for someone. U: He stole from me. U: I'm concerned about the information to find him and take my things. tlh: You ??? a Klingon? U: Yes he was my lover. U: Now he is hiding in the ruins of this city. tlh: You lie! U: Then kill me! U: I will certainly die with honor. Jeremy
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 9:21 AM, André Müller <esperantist@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
Any idea about the other sentence? {tlhInganna' naQpu'a' SoH?} = "You are a definite klingon. (?)"
I do think the dialogue is in correct Klingon, but perhaps it's something quite different, though I don't get the verb in the middle, a suggestion: {tlhIngan Da-???-pu''a' SoH?} = "Did you [naq?] a Klingon / the Klingon(s)?" The syllable in the middle sounds like naq or naQ, but I can't figure it out.
Try {ngagh}.
Also, is the second line plausible? {mughojmoH parmaqqaywI'.} = "My romantic partner has taught me."
That's clearly the line she spoke. Zoe Saldana learned it well, and pronounced it perfectly during a late night talk show appearance. It's a shame it didn't actually appear in the finished film. -- ghunchu'wI'
Ooooooh, {ngagh}! I hadn't thought of *that*! Well, now it makes perfect sense. Thank you! - André 2017-08-29 16:43 GMT+02:00 Alan Anderson <qunchuy@alcaco.net>:
On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 9:21 AM, André Müller <esperantist@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
Any idea about the other sentence? {tlhInganna' naQpu'a' SoH?} = "You are a definite klingon. (?)"
I do think the dialogue is in correct Klingon, but perhaps it's something quite different, though I don't get the verb in the middle, a suggestion: {tlhIngan Da-???-pu''a' SoH?} = "Did you [naq?] a Klingon / the Klingon(s)?" The syllable in the middle sounds like naq or naQ, but I can't figure it out.
Try {ngagh}.
Also, is the second line plausible? {mughojmoH parmaqqaywI'.} = "My romantic partner has taught me."
That's clearly the line she spoke. Zoe Saldana learned it well, and pronounced it perfectly during a late night talk show appearance. It's a shame it didn't actually appear in the finished film.
-- ghunchu'wI'
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
On 28 August 2017 at 15:21, André Müller <esperantist@gmail.com> wrote:
Remember the Klingon dialogue between Uhura and the Klingon from Star Trek Into Darkness? Do you also remember that the final cut was pieced together and retranslated and re-subtitled? On YouTube you can still watch the original cut (with wrong subtitles though):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9AFnBkIRwo
The Klingon Wiki has the dialogue and explanations about this scene:
We already went through most of this when the movie's deleted scenes first came out. DevwI' ghaH 'Iv'e'? mughojmoH parmaqqaywI'. naDev vIghochpu'. tlhIngan Dangaghpu''a' SoH? HIja'. 'ej jIHvo' nIHDI' jIbup. DaH vengvam pIghDaq So''eghtaH... nuch. ghaH vISammeH 'ej DochmeywIj vItlhap- bInep. vaj HIHoH. batlh jIHeghbej. The lines are out of order, but the original idea was that the Klingon wanted to know how Uhura knew Klingon, and she then claimed that her ex-Klingon lover had taught her, but he stole from her so she tracked him to Qo'noS. The entire original uncut sentence {ghaH vISammeH 'ej DochmeywIj vItlhapqa'meH naDev vIghochpu'} can be heard here at the 20 second mark, and {mughojmoH parmaqqaywI'} can be heard at the 1:05 mark: https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/movies/2013/09/06/star-trek-into-darknes... -- De'vID
participants (5)
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Alan Anderson -
André Müller -
David Holt -
De'vID -
Lieven