Not just cool. Sub-zero rura-pente cool.
"I am not a man of words. But I respect the power of words, for that is what transformed me. The words of the Sith Code. Others had heard them, contemplated them, and so on. But I understood them, and they changed me. For what was I before I heard those words? Nothing." ―Darth Bane, Dark Lord of the Sith mu'mey loD jIHbe', 'ach mu'mey HoS vIvuv, HoSvammo' jIghe'choH. sith 'Ip mu'mey.. Qoypu' latlhpu', paQpu', latlh je. 'ach mu'meyvam vIyajpu' jIH'e', 'ej muchoH rIntaH. mu'meyvam vIQoypu'pa', nuq jIH ? pagh'e'. ―bane darth, sith joH Hurgh ~ hjkhjkk
ok, hold on a minute.. Initially, I almost fell into the trap of writing {jIghe'choHpu'} for "I have been transformed". But then, I remembered that {ghe'} is given as "be transformed, transmuted, metamorphosed, totally altered". So, I wrote {jIghe'choH} which means "I became transformed", and everything was right as rain (as americans say), or "everything was milk-honey" (as greeks say).. But.. I just read the Ca'Non sentence {maS Daghe'moH'a' ?} which was given as "are you terraforming the moon ?". Why isn't this sentence given as "have you terraformed the moon ?" ? ~ cbcbcb
qay'be'. I just understood it.. {maS Daghe'moH'a' ?} means "do you cause the moon to be totally altered ?" ~ jghkhk
<ghe'> is “be transformed, transmuted, metamorphosed, totally altered” <ghe'moH> is “cause to be transformed, etc.” tlhIngan Hol has no tense, so <maS Daghe'moH'a'> could mean any of the following: Are you terraforming the moon? Did you terraform the moon? Will you terraform the moon? The addition of a type-7 suffix can add additional clarity, though it is not required. For example: <maS Daghe'moHlI''a'?> - Are you, in the time context of the sentence, in the process of terraforming the moon? <maS Daghe'moHta''a'?> - Have you, in the time context of the sentence, intentionally completed the act of terraforming the moon? pagh From: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org> On Behalf Of mayqel qunen'oS Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2019 11:11 AM To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list <tlhingan-hol@kli.org> Subject: Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Not just cool. Sub-zero rura-pente cool. ok, hold on a minute.. Initially, I almost fell into the trap of writing {jIghe'choHpu'} for "I have been transformed". But then, I remembered that {ghe'} is given as "be transformed, transmuted, metamorphosed, totally altered". So, I wrote {jIghe'choH} which means "I became transformed", and everything was right as rain (as americans say), or "everything was milk-honey" (as greeks say).. But.. I just read the Ca'Non sentence {maS Daghe'moH'a' ?} which was given as "are you terraforming the moon ?". Why isn't this sentence given as "have you terraformed the moon ?" ? ~ cbcbcb
On 7/25/2019 2:21 PM, RE Andeen wrote:
<ghe'> is “be transformed, transmuted, metamorphosed, totally altered” <ghe'moH> is “cause to be transformed, etc.”
tlhIngan Hol has no tense, so <maS Daghe'moH'a'> could mean any of the following:
Are you terraforming the moon? Did you terraform the moon?
/Did you terraform the moon/ is a perfective concept in almost any context: you're asking about a completed event from your viewpoint of asking about a past action. It requires a perfective marker. Now, if you're asking whether terraforming was the sort of thing you did in the past, then you don't need perfective for that, because you're not asking about a completed event. "Last year I was on the moon-terraforming team. I look forward to the day they finish that."
Will you terraform the moon?
The addition of a type-7 suffix can add additional clarity, though it is not required. For example:
The addition of a type 7 suffix is required if you intend to express the concept represented by that suffix. If you intend to describe something with perfective, then you must use a perfective suffix (or *rIntaH*). If you intend to describe something that is ongoing, then you must use a continuous suffix. Lacking any such suffix means the action is not completed and not continuous. You can't leave off an aspect suffix when describing an aspect any more than you can leave off *-laH* when encoding ability into a verb. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
On 7/25/2019 2:11 PM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
So, I wrote {jIghe'choH} which means "I became transformed", and everything was right as rain (as americans say), or "everything was milk-honey" (as greeks say)..
*jIghe'choH*/I become transformed/ (you're describing being in the moment of being transformed, whether it happened in the past, present, or future). *jIghe'choHpu'*/I became transformed/ (you're describing having completed a transformation, whether it happened in the past or future). -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
SuStel:
jIghe'choHpu' I became transformed (you're describing having completed a transformation, whether it happened in the past or future).
hmm.. Interesting.. But now I wonder.. When I read {jIghe'pu'}, I understand "I have been transformed". (completed event). However, the use of {-pu'} on this occasion, gives the meaning, that "I have been transformed, but perhaps later this transformation un-happened". Whereas, if we say {jIghe'} then this means "I am transformed" i.e. "my transformation still continues". Is my understanding correct ? ~ nccbc
On 7/25/2019 3:32 PM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
SuStel:
jIghe'choHpu' I became transformed (you're describing having completed a transformation, whether it happened in the past or future).
hmm.. Interesting.. But now I wonder..
When I read {jIghe'pu'}, I understand "I have been transformed". (completed event).
However, the use of {-pu'} on this occasion, gives the meaning, that "I have been transformed, but perhaps later this transformation un-happened".
Whereas, if we say {jIghe'} then this means "I am transformed" i.e. "my transformation still continues".
Is my understanding correct ?
*ghe'* is a "be verb." Let's look at a simpler "be verb" that doesn't sound perfective in English. *Quch* /be happy/ *jIQuch*/I am happy./ Either this is a description of a particular moment in which I am happy, or it's a general description of my state. *jIQuchpu'*/I was happy/. My state of happiness was completed. I may or may not be happy at some other time, but at the time being described my state of happiness ended. Now let's go the new word. It's a more complicated translation in English, but in Klingon isn't just another "be verb." Syntactically, it's completely identical to *Quch.* *ghe'*/be transformed, transmuted, metamorphosed, totally altered./ This is describing a state, not an action. *jIghe'* /I am transformed./ I am in an altered state, some other state than the one before. *jIghe'pu'*/I was transformed./ I was in an altered state, but that altered state has come to an end. I may or may not be in an altered state now, but the altered state being described ended. *jIghe'pu'* /I was transformed/ does not mean *vIghe'moHlu'pu'*/I was transformed./ That's just a trick of English grammar. One says I was in an altered state; the other says someone did something to change me. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
participants (3)
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mayqel qunen'oS -
RE Andeen -
SuStel