Re: [tlhIngan Hol] mu'mey chu' lutHom.
Uh, why is Scotland {SIqotlan}? And not based on Alba? ~M RoneySent from my Palm Prē -------- Original message --------From: "Lieven L. Litaer" <levinius@gmx.de> Date: 11/14/19 16:49 (GMT-05:00) To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org Subject: [tlhIngan Hol] mu'mey chu' lutHom. At qepHom 2019, Maltz has revealed some new words, and answered somequestions. Here's a short story using the new words. Grammatical answersfollow in a separate mail.qaStaHvIS qImroq tuj nuSuchta' matlh. Dochmey DIleghbogh Delta'. mu'meychu' vIlo'mo', jIlaqlaw', 'ach laqlaq bIHbe'bej mu'meyvetlh. juHmaj SepwIlengtaHvIS, SIntlher 'angweD wISuch. loqbogh Ha'DIbaH tIQ 'oHSIntlher'e', 'ej roD tInqu' bIH. loQ 'evta' tInqu' rur, chaq lung rur.ben law' bIH Qaw'mo' chunDab, taHbe' Ha'DIbaHvetlh tIQ. vaj loq bIH netjatlh.SIntlher cha'meH cha' mIw lutu'lu': Ha'DIbaH tlhut tu'lu'. bIH 'aghmeH,DIrDaj tlhutmoHlu' vaj tu'qomDaj leghlaH vay'. porgh qal'aq neH ghajvelqa'mey' 'op. Hom qal'aqvaD nobmeD ponglu'. DughrI' 'oH nach Hom pong'e'.'ach pa' SIntlher velqa'mey neH lutu'lu'be'; 'an'ormey law'qu' lucha'lu'je. mu'vetlh vIQIj je: nagh mojDI' Ha'DIbaH, vaj 'an 'oH 'ej 'an'or moj.roD 'apbe' 'an'ormey, roD taw' bIH. Dochmeyvetlh tIQ HaD 'an'ortej.ghIq pay'rIn wISuch. pa' qachmey tIQ qappammey lumolHa'lu'ta'. roSqa'meytu'lu' je. 'IHbe' Hoch qachmeyvam. Qaw'chu'lu' 'op, 'ej Dat naghmeylutu'lu': way'ar rurqu'.DorDI' lengmaj, DIS wISuch. 'ach DIS but 'oHbe'. DISvam lughaw Humanpu'.ngoDvetlhmo' De'lormey lutu'lu'be'. roD DIS but ravvo' pumDI' bIQ'onroSmey, pa' bebDaq chen pa' beb De'lor, ravDaq chen rav De'lor.--Lieven L. Litaeraka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany"http://www.klingonisch.dehttp://www.klingonwiki.net/En/NewWordsQepHom2019___... mailing listtlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.orghttp://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
On 11/15/2019 2:50 PM, Hugh Son puqloD wrote:
On Nov 15, 2019, at 11:47, M Roney <nahqun@gmail.com> wrote:
Uh, why is Scotland {SIqotlan}? And not based on Alba? jISIv je. 'op Hogh ret 'ewrop DIron DIrIchtaHvIS jIH janSIy je SepvamvaD 'alba wIpongtaH.
Probably because /Alba/ is the Scottish Gaelic name of Scotland and only about 1% of the population of Scotland speaks it. Most people in Scotland call it /Scotland./
-- SuStel http://trimboli.name
So, why not {SeqatlenDe’}? That would certainly be a more recognizable transliteration. Okrand’s looks more like its based on English spelling than pronunciation, which he has avoided doing when naming other countries. In the end, it’s arbitrary. It’s like the way that American contra dance has a figure called “allemande” which is the French word for “German”, except that it probably comes from a corruption of the French words "a la main”, meaning “by the hand”, since it involves two people holding hands while walking around each other, and has nothing to do with Germany. Or France, for that matter. Throw a word through different languages and change happens. {Seqotlan} it is. charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.
On Nov 15, 2019, at 3:07 PM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
On 11/15/2019 2:50 PM, Hugh Son puqloD wrote:
On Nov 15, 2019, at 11:47, M Roney <nahqun@gmail.com> <mailto:nahqun@gmail.com> wrote:
Uh, why is Scotland {SIqotlan}? And not based on Alba? jISIv je. 'op Hogh ret 'ewrop DIron DIrIchtaHvIS jIH janSIy je SepvamvaD 'alba wIpongtaH.
Probably because Alba is the Scottish Gaelic name of Scotland and only about 1% of the population of Scotland speaks it. Most people in Scotland call it Scotland. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name <http://trimboli.name/>_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 4:26 PM Will Martin <willmartin2@mac.com> wrote:
So, why not {SeqatlenDe’}? That would certainly be a more recognizable transliteration. Okrand’s looks more like its based on English spelling than pronunciation, which he has avoided doing when naming other countries.
He's been pretty consistent about transliterating word-final "-land" as {-lan}, even if it's natively pronounced as "-lant": - {ne'Derlan} The Netherlands (from Dutch *Nederland*) - {DoyIchlan} Germany (from German *Deutschland*) - {'Inglan} England (from English *England*) - {'ISlan} Iceland (from Icelandic *Ísland)* - {nu'SIylan} New Zealand (from New Zealandish *New Zealand*) He also consistently uses {I} to break up a word-initial "sc-" or "sk-" consonant cluster: - {SIQab'el} Scrabble - {SIqenDInavya'} Scandinavia (from English, I assume) - {SIqral} the river Skral (coined in English for DS9) I don't know why the vowel in "SIqot" is {o} and not {a}. After having watched a couple of Scottish accent videos on Youtube, my guess is that Scottish speakers tend to pronounce the "o" vowel with more rounding than in English, so perhaps Maltz thought {o} was a little closer.
On 11/15/2019 4:26 PM, Will Martin wrote:
So, why not {SeqatlenDe’}? That would certainly be a more recognizable transliteration.
In your dialect of English, perhaps, but what about in Scottish English (and I don't mean Scots)? I'm actually more surprised it's not *SIqo'lan,* since terminal /t/'s tend to be turned into glottal stops in Scottish English. I'm pretty sure the first vowel of /Scotland/ when spoken by Scots does not sound like the /a/ in American English /father. /It's not all the way to Klingon *o,* though. Here's a video fo Craig Fergusson saying it with what I assume is a Glaswegian accent: https://youtu.be/iTOvKGUdXNc?t=39 There are different Scottish accents, though, and I'm not familiar with the differences. Here's a cool video about that (she says /Scotland/ at the beginning): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXpQna8WRB8 As for the *-lan,* as nIqolay points out, he's always transliterated /-land/ as *-lan.* I expect that's to avoid piling on too many extra syllables. The final /d/ just isn't all that important. But the initial /S/ and /c/ are equally important.
Okrand’s looks more like its based on English spelling than pronunciation, which he has avoided doing when naming other countries.
In the end, it’s arbitrary.
Throw a word through different languages and change happens. {Seqotlan} it is.
*SIqotlan* -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
On Fri, Nov 15, 2019 at 4:59 PM SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
As for the *-lan,* as nIqolay points out, he's always transliterated *-land* as *-lan.* I expect that's to avoid piling on too many extra syllables. The final *d* just isn't all that important. But the initial *S* and *c* are equally important.
He still sometimes adds an extra syllable for other word-final consonant clusters: - {ma'rIch} (Barbara) March - {rabe'rIt} Robert (O'Reilly) - {wa'lIS} (Gwynyth) Walsh I think "-land" gets trimmed to {-lan} because /n/ and /d/ are both voiced alveolar consonants, so they're more similar. (The fact that Klingon doesn't have a /d/ sound might help here too.)
participants (5)
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Hugh Son puqloD -
M Roney -
nIqolay Q -
SuStel -
Will Martin