The {ram} "night", used in the following way is a timestamp: {ram, leghchuq maH vIghro' je} at night, we and the cat will see each other Is the {qaStaHvIS ram} a timestamp too ? And the reason I am asking, is with regards to its placement in a sentence, which also happens to have a noun with a type-5 suffix. For example: {juHDaq, qaStaHvIS ram, maHaD maH vIghro' je} at home, during the night, we and the cat will be studying {qaStaHvIS ram, juHDaq, maHaD maH vIghro' je} during the night, at home, we and the cat will be studying The way I understand it, there is no rule as to what needs to come first; a timestamp, or a noun with a type-5 suffix. So, if the {qaStaHvIS ram} is a timestamp, then both of the above sentences must be correct. But the question is, whether the {qaStaHvIS ram} is indeed a timestamp, because if it isn't, then it necessarily needs to follow the {juHDaq}. qunnoq
On Sun, Sep 10, 2017 at 8:44 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
The {ram} "night", used in the following way is a timestamp:
{ram, leghchuq maH vIghro' je} at night, we and the cat will see each other
Is the {qaStaHvIS ram} a timestamp too ?
A timestamp is a noun or noun phrase that says when something happens. {qaStaHvIS ram} is not a timestamp, it is a subordinate clause. It has a verb, and behaves like any other subordinate clause. The rules don't change just because this particular subordinate clause also specifies when something happens. But the question is, whether the {qaStaHvIS ram} is indeed a timestamp,
because if it isn't, then it necessarily needs to follow the {juHDaq}.
How do you figure? {qaStaHvIS ram} isn't a timestamp, it's a clause. Like with all clauses, your options are to put it either before or after the main sentence: {qaStaHvIS ram juHDaq maHaD maH vIghro' je} and {juHDaq maHaD maH vIghro' je qaStaHvIS ram}
nIqolay Q:
{qaStaHvIS ram juHDaq maHaD maH vIghro' je} {juHDaq maHaD maH vIghro' je qaStaHvIS ram}
I understand these two; but could we write too {juHDaq qaStaHvIS ram maHaD maH vIghro' je} ? qunnoq On Sep 10, 2017 21:58, "nIqolay Q" <niqolay0@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Sep 10, 2017 at 8:44 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
The {ram} "night", used in the following way is a timestamp:
{ram, leghchuq maH vIghro' je} at night, we and the cat will see each other
Is the {qaStaHvIS ram} a timestamp too ?
A timestamp is a noun or noun phrase that says when something happens. {qaStaHvIS ram} is not a timestamp, it is a subordinate clause. It has a verb, and behaves like any other subordinate clause. The rules don't change just because this particular subordinate clause also specifies when something happens.
But the question is, whether the {qaStaHvIS ram} is indeed a timestamp,
because if it isn't, then it necessarily needs to follow the {juHDaq}.
How do you figure? {qaStaHvIS ram} isn't a timestamp, it's a clause. Like with all clauses, your options are to put it either before or after the main sentence:
{qaStaHvIS ram juHDaq maHaD maH vIghro' je}
and
{juHDaq maHaD maH vIghro' je qaStaHvIS ram}
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On 9/10/2017 3:06 PM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
nIqolay Q:
{qaStaHvIS ram juHDaq maHaD maH vIghro' je} {juHDaq maHaD maH vIghro' je qaStaHvIS ram}
I understand these two; but could we write too {juHDaq qaStaHvIS ram maHaD maH vIghro' je} ?
What we call a time stamp in Klingon studies is not /any/ expression that tells you when something happens; it is only a noun or noun phrase that does so. *qaStaHvIS ram* is not a noun phrase, so it is not a time stamp. If it were, then /every/ *-vIS* and *-DI' *clause would be a time stamp. Here's how things are ordered in a normal complex Klingon sentence (for "noun phrase" read "noun or noun phrase"): [subordinate and purpose clauses] [time stamps] [adverbials] [syntactic noun phrases] [object noun phrase] [verb] [subject noun phrase ] [subordinate clauses] This is not absolute; you might see Klingon sentences violating this order from time to time. I haven't included possible uses of *neH, je,* or *jay',* or sentences-as-object, sentence conjunctions, comparatives, or copulas. I haven't included special rules changing sentence order like putting adverbials after a noun phrase with *-'e'* (if that really is a change in sentence order). But in general, this is what you build around the basic OVS structure. So you can't write your sentence your way. You've got a subordinate clause between a syntactic noun and the verb, and that's not allowed. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
On Sun, Sep 10, 2017 at 3:06 PM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
nIqolay Q:
{qaStaHvIS ram juHDaq maHaD maH vIghro' je} {juHDaq maHaD maH vIghro' je qaStaHvIS ram}
I understand these two; but could we write too {juHDaq qaStaHvIS ram maHaD maH vIghro' je} ?
I mean, you can write absolutely anything you want, the issue is whether it means what you want. {juHDaq} would be part of the clause {qaStaHvIS ram}: "While night was occuring in the house, we and the cat studied." If I saw a sentence phrased like that, I would wonder why it was necessary to specify that night is taking place in the house. Night takes place over a wide area and is generally not considered an indoors thing. Is there some kind of temporal anomaly in the house, and it's daytime outside?
participants (3)
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mayqel qunenoS -
nIqolay Q -
SuStel