The miserable have no other medicine, but only hope
I'm trying to recover the original Klingon of this line from Measure for Measure. wa' Hergh neH lughaj Do'Ha'wI': tul. Suggestions? (I'm uncomfortable with the fact that {tul} is a verb whereas {Hergh} is a noun.) -- De'vID
"Hope" is a weird word in English (and many other languages), because it refers both to an emotion and to the possibility that that hope will actually will come true: "A new hope" doesn't just mean "a new wish that something will happen", but some means by which it might. That being said, I think "the act of hoping" or "the ability to hope" works quite well in this instance, if we're talking about the mental effect of having not given up. As such, you could replace «tul» with something like: tullaHghach tulqangghach tulmeH meq tultaHghach //loghaD ________________________________ From: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org> on behalf of De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> Sent: Saturday, January 6, 2018 5:21:24 AM To: tlhIngan-Hol Subject: [tlhIngan Hol] The miserable have no other medicine, but only hope I'm trying to recover the original Klingon of this line from Measure for Measure. wa' Hergh neH lughaj Do'Ha'wI': tul. Suggestions? (I'm uncomfortable with the fact that {tul} is a verb whereas {Hergh} is a noun.) -- De'vID
I know it's not the same as hope, but try the noun {chabal} "something desired" which is what *les miserables* desperate long for: [Lieven < MO (qepHom 2015 p.12)]: "wish list" is {chabal tetlh}. {chabal} is something desired or requested. There also is a verb "to wish", as in "I wish I could" ... {jIn}: {tlhIngan jIH 'e' vIjIn} "I wish I were a Klingon". Not to quibble, but instead of {Do'Ha'wI'} "the unfortunate/unlucky one(s)" - is that why they're miserable? -- also consider {bechwI'} "the suffering one(s)". {SIQwI'} "he/she/they who endure/bear [something]" might also work if it were not for the word's positive associations for Klingons: SIQwI' lu'oy'moHmeH juppu'Daj 'oy'naQmey lo' chaH. SuvwI' qa' patlh veb chavlaHmeH tlhIngan lo'chu' chaH. toDujDaj toblu'. The Painstik is employed by friends of the recipient who use the devices to inflict pain in a manner which will allow the Klingon to attain a higher state of spirituality as a warrior, proving his mettle. (S32) 'oy' DaSIQjaj May you endure the pain! PK yIn DayajmeH 'oy' yISIQ. To understand life, endure pain. TKW --Voragh From: Felix Malmenbeck "Hope" is a weird word in English (and many other languages), because it refers both to an emotion and to the possibility that that hope will actually will come true: "A new hope" doesn't just mean "a new wish that something will happen", but some means by which it might. That being said, I think "the act of hoping" or "the ability to hope" works quite well in this instance, if we're talking about the mental effect of having not given up. As such, you could replace <tul> with something like: tullaHghach tulqangghach tulmeH meq tultaHghach ________________________________ From: De'vID I'm trying to recover the original Klingon of this line from Measure for Measure. wa' Hergh neH lughaj Do'Ha'wI': tul. Suggestions? (I'm uncomfortable with the fact that {tul} is a verb whereas {Hergh} is a noun.) De'vID
I suspect that wilyam SeQpIr might also have gone the all-verbs route with *vor'eghmeH bechwI' tullaH neH.* Doug On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 12:26 PM, Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu> wrote:
I know it’s not the same as hope, but try the noun {chabal} “something desired” which is what **les miserables** desperate long for:
[Lieven < MO (qepHom 2015 p.12)]: “wish list” is {chabal tetlh}. {chabal} is something desired or requested. There also is a verb “to wish”, as in “I wish I could” … {jIn}: {tlhIngan jIH 'e' vIjIn} “I wish I were a Klingon”.
Not to quibble, but instead of {Do'Ha'wI’} “the unfortunate/unlucky one(s)” – is that why they’re miserable? -- also consider {bechwI’} “the suffering one(s)”. {SIQwI’} “he/she/they who endure/bear [something]” might also work if it were not for the word’s positive associations for Klingons:
SIQwI' lu'oy'moHmeH juppu'Daj 'oy'naQmey lo' chaH. SuvwI' qa' patlh veb chavlaHmeH tlhIngan lo'chu' chaH. toDujDaj toblu'. The Painstik is employed by friends of the recipient who use the devices to inflict pain in a manner which will allow the Klingon to attain a higher state of spirituality as a warrior, proving his mettle. (S32)
'oy' DaSIQjaj May you endure the pain! PK
yIn DayajmeH 'oy' yISIQ. To understand life, endure pain. TKW
--Voragh
*From:* Felix Malmenbeck
"Hope" is a weird word in English (and many other languages), because it refers both to an emotion and to the possibility that that hope will actually will come true: "A new hope" doesn't just mean "a new wish that something will happen", but some means by which it might. That being said, I think "the act of hoping" or "the ability to hope" works quite well in this instance, if we're talking about the mental effect of having not given up.
As such, you could replace «tul» with something like: tullaHghach tulqangghach tulmeH meq tultaHghach
------------------------------
*From:* De'vID
I'm trying to recover the original Klingon of this line from Measure for Measure.
wa' Hergh neH lughaj Do'Ha'wI': tul.
Suggestions? (I'm uncomfortable with the fact that {tul} is a verb whereas {Hergh} is a noun.)
De'vID
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
However {tullaH neH} doesn't mean "only are able to hope". It means "merely are able to hope". And I think the intended meaning is the former. ~ nI'ghma On Jan 10, 2018 17:12, "Doug Henning" <likethemagician@gmail.com> wrote:
I suspect that wilyam SeQpIr might also have gone the all-verbs route with *vor'eghmeH bechwI' tullaH neH.*
Doug
On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 12:26 PM, Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu> wrote:
I know it’s not the same as hope, but try the noun {chabal} “something desired” which is what **les miserables** desperate long for:
[Lieven < MO (qepHom 2015 p.12)]: “wish list” is {chabal tetlh}. {chabal} is something desired or requested. There also is a verb “to wish”, as in “I wish I could” … {jIn}: {tlhIngan jIH 'e' vIjIn} “I wish I were a Klingon”.
Not to quibble, but instead of {Do'Ha'wI’} “the unfortunate/unlucky one(s)” – is that why they’re miserable? -- also consider {bechwI’} “the suffering one(s)”. {SIQwI’} “he/she/they who endure/bear [something]” might also work if it were not for the word’s positive associations for Klingons:
SIQwI' lu'oy'moHmeH juppu'Daj 'oy'naQmey lo' chaH. SuvwI' qa' patlh veb chavlaHmeH tlhIngan lo'chu' chaH. toDujDaj toblu'. The Painstik is employed by friends of the recipient who use the devices to inflict pain in a manner which will allow the Klingon to attain a higher state of spirituality as a warrior, proving his mettle. (S32)
'oy' DaSIQjaj May you endure the pain! PK
yIn DayajmeH 'oy' yISIQ. To understand life, endure pain. TKW
--Voragh
*From:* Felix Malmenbeck
"Hope" is a weird word in English (and many other languages), because it refers both to an emotion and to the possibility that that hope will actually will come true: "A new hope" doesn't just mean "a new wish that something will happen", but some means by which it might. That being said, I think "the act of hoping" or "the ability to hope" works quite well in this instance, if we're talking about the mental effect of having not given up.
As such, you could replace «tul» with something like: tullaHghach tulqangghach tulmeH meq tultaHghach
------------------------------
*From:* De'vID
I'm trying to recover the original Klingon of this line from Measure for Measure.
wa' Hergh neH lughaj Do'Ha'wI': tul.
Suggestions? (I'm uncomfortable with the fact that {tul} is a verb whereas {Hergh} is a noun.)
De'vID
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
Not the same but I'd say it's a similar sense, comparable to a statement like "For my commute, I can merely afford a bicycle." It doesn't convey the precise notion that hope is the only option however. That could work if you also set up a contrast like so: *Herghna' Hutlh bechwI'. tul neH.* batlh bIHeghjaj, Doug On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 10:17 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
However {tullaH neH} doesn't mean "only are able to hope". It means "merely are able to hope". And I think the intended meaning is the former.
~ nI'ghma
On Jan 10, 2018 17:12, "Doug Henning" <likethemagician@gmail.com> wrote:
I suspect that wilyam SeQpIr might also have gone the all-verbs route with *vor'eghmeH bechwI' tullaH neH.*
Doug
On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 12:26 PM, Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu> wrote:
I know it’s not the same as hope, but try the noun {chabal} “something desired” which is what **les miserables** desperate long for:
[Lieven < MO (qepHom 2015 p.12)]: “wish list” is {chabal tetlh}. {chabal} is something desired or requested. There also is a verb “to wish”, as in “I wish I could” … {jIn}: {tlhIngan jIH 'e' vIjIn} “I wish I were a Klingon”.
Not to quibble, but instead of {Do'Ha'wI’} “the unfortunate/unlucky one(s)” – is that why they’re miserable? -- also consider {bechwI’} “the suffering one(s)”. {SIQwI’} “he/she/they who endure/bear [something]” might also work if it were not for the word’s positive associations for Klingons:
SIQwI' lu'oy'moHmeH juppu'Daj 'oy'naQmey lo' chaH. SuvwI' qa' patlh veb chavlaHmeH tlhIngan lo'chu' chaH. toDujDaj toblu'. The Painstik is employed by friends of the recipient who use the devices to inflict pain in a manner which will allow the Klingon to attain a higher state of spirituality as a warrior, proving his mettle. (S32)
'oy' DaSIQjaj May you endure the pain! PK
yIn DayajmeH 'oy' yISIQ. To understand life, endure pain. TKW
--Voragh
*From:* Felix Malmenbeck
"Hope" is a weird word in English (and many other languages), because it refers both to an emotion and to the possibility that that hope will actually will come true: "A new hope" doesn't just mean "a new wish that something will happen", but some means by which it might. That being said, I think "the act of hoping" or "the ability to hope" works quite well in this instance, if we're talking about the mental effect of having not given up.
As such, you could replace «tul» with something like: tullaHghach tulqangghach tulmeH meq tultaHghach
------------------------------
*From:* De'vID
I'm trying to recover the original Klingon of this line from Measure for Measure.
wa' Hergh neH lughaj Do'Ha'wI': tul.
Suggestions? (I'm uncomfortable with the fact that {tul} is a verb whereas {Hergh} is a noun.)
De'vID
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
participants (5)
-
De'vID -
Doug Henning -
Felix Malmenbeck -
mayqel qunenoS -
Steven Boozer