adverb locative adverb time stamp
The rule says that all non-ovs crap (adverbs, locatives, etc..) come at the beginning of the sentence. But the rule doesn't say that in case we have two adverbs, two time stamps, etc, each of these two adverbs/time stamps/etc needs to follow the other adverb/time stamp/etc. So suppose I want to say "usually at deep space intentionally on mondays the romulans disrupt our data transmissions". Perhaps I could say: motlh logh HopDaq chIch DaSjajmey jabbI'IDmeymaj nIS romuluSnganpu' How does this idea seem to you? I think that in spoken klingon this would be easier to swallow, since one could add a slight pause to his voice to indicate how he means the sentence to be understood: motlh logh HopDaq (slight pause) chIch DaSjajmey (slight pause) jabbI'IDmeymaj nIS romuluSnganpu' Of course, one could suggest that we could use the three dots in written klingon, like this: motlh logh HopDaq... chIch DaSjajmey... jabbI'IDmeymaj nIS romuluSnganpu' But I wonder if we could pull this through without having to use the three dots. -- Dana'an https://sacredtextsinklingon.wordpress.com/ Ζεὺς ἦν, Ζεὺς ἐστίν, Ζεὺς ἔσσεται· ὦ μεγάλε Ζεῦ
Oh, sorry. I'm an idiot. The time stamp needs to come first.. So consider all the above as "time stamp adverb locative adverb locative ovs" DaSjajmey motlh logh HopDaq roD julmeyDaq jabbI'IDmeymaj nIS romuluSnganpu' -- Dana'an https://sacredtextsinklingon.wordpress.com/ Ζεὺς ἦν, Ζεὺς ἐστίν, Ζεὺς ἔσσεται· ὦ μεγάλε Ζεῦ
On 3/17/2022 9:03 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
The rule says that all non-ovs crap (adverbs, locatives, etc..) come at the beginning of the sentence.
But the rule doesn't say that in case we have two adverbs, two time stamps, etc, each of these two adverbs/time stamps/etc needs to follow the other adverb/time stamp/etc.
So suppose I want to say "usually at deep space intentionally on mondays the romulans disrupt our data transmissions".
Perhaps I could say:
motlh logh HopDaq chIch DaSjajmey jabbI'IDmeymaj nIS romuluSnganpu'
How does this idea seem to you?
(With the correction of the position of the time expression) On Mondays, in deep space, Romulans usually and intentionally disrupt our data transmissions.
I think that in spoken klingon this would be easier to swallow, since one could add a slight pause to his voice to indicate how he means the sentence to be understood:
motlh logh HopDaq (slight pause) chIch DaSjajmey (slight pause) jabbI'IDmeymaj nIS romuluSnganpu'
Of course, one could suggest that we could use the three dots in written klingon, like this:
motlh logh HopDaq... chIch DaSjajmey... jabbI'IDmeymaj nIS romuluSnganpu'
But I wonder if we could pull this through without having to use the three dots.
What you're trying to do is to restrict the meanings of adverbials to specific type 5'd nouns by grouping them together. We don't have any evidence that Klingon does that. So far as we know, everything that goes in the "header" of the sentence applies to the entire sentence. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
Totally in agreement with SuStel. There’s a reason Klingon grammarians prefer the word “adverbials” instead of “adverbs”. In English, and adverb typically modifies a verb or an adjective "a word or phrase that modifies or qualifies an adjective, verb, or other adverb or a word group”. In Klingon, it modifies or qualifies a sentence/clause. Period. It does the thing that adverbs do, but not to specific words or phrases. The minimum unit it can be applied to is the clause. Okrand used the word “adverb” because he was writing for a general audience, including people not as familiar with the word “adverbial” as with “adverb”. pItlh charghwI’ ‘utlh (ghaH, ghaH, -Daj)
On Mar 17, 2022, at 9:16 AM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
On 3/17/2022 9:03 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
The rule says that all non-ovs crap (adverbs, locatives, etc..) come at the beginning of the sentence.
But the rule doesn't say that in case we have two adverbs, two time stamps, etc, each of these two adverbs/time stamps/etc needs to follow the other adverb/time stamp/etc.
So suppose I want to say "usually at deep space intentionally on mondays the romulans disrupt our data transmissions".
Perhaps I could say:
motlh logh HopDaq chIch DaSjajmey jabbI'IDmeymaj nIS romuluSnganpu'
How does this idea seem to you?
(With the correction of the position of the time expression)
On Mondays, in deep space, Romulans usually and intentionally disrupt our data transmissions.
I think that in spoken klingon this would be easier to swallow, since one could add a slight pause to his voice to indicate how he means the sentence to be understood:
motlh logh HopDaq (slight pause) chIch DaSjajmey (slight pause) jabbI'IDmeymaj nIS romuluSnganpu'
Of course, one could suggest that we could use the three dots in written klingon, like this:
motlh logh HopDaq... chIch DaSjajmey... jabbI'IDmeymaj nIS romuluSnganpu'
But I wonder if we could pull this through without having to use the three dots.
What you're trying to do is to restrict the meanings of adverbials to specific type 5'd nouns by grouping them together. We don't have any evidence that Klingon does that. So far as we know, everything that goes in the "header" of the sentence applies to the entire sentence.
-- SuStel http://trimboli.name
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On 3/17/2022 1:40 PM, Will Martin wrote:
Totally in agreement with SuStel. There’s a reason Klingon grammarians prefer the word “adverbials” instead of “adverbs”.
Weeeeeeellllll, actually, Klingon grammarians call them *qunI',* and don't distinguish between /adverbs/ and /adverbials,/ because those are English words and they do Klingon linguistics in Klingon.
In English, and adverb typically modifies a verb or an adjective "aword or phrase that modifies or qualifies an adjective, verb, or other adverb or a word group”.
Weeeeeeellllll, actually, adverbs are a part of speech and single words, while adverbials are phrases that act like adverbs. Strictly speaking, the *QongDaqDaq* in *QongDaqDaq Qotbe' tlhInganpu'* is an adverbial in the sense that it modifies the way the action is performed. But we already have a set of words we call adverbials, so there's no point confusing the terminology that way.
Okrand used the word “adverb” because he was writing for a general audience, including people not as familiar with the word “adverbial” as with “adverb”.
I think Okrand called them adverbials instead of adverbs because he made the point that Klingon linguists only recognize three parts of speech: nouns, verbs, and leftovers. Since a word like *pIj* has the part of speech of "leftover," not "adverb," but it acts like an adverb, he called it an adverbial: a word that isn't an adverb but is acting like one. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
participants (3)
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mayqel qunen'oS -
SuStel -
Will Martin