Human maHmo', wa'vam jaj wIjIn: pagh qay'wI'mey ghajbogh jaj'e' wIjIn. 'ej meq yajlu'bej. qay'wI'mey bamlu' ; neH 'Iv ? pagh. 'a ngoDvam wIlIj : qay'wI'mey neH pagh 'a 'ut bIH. qul lurur qay'wI' 'ej qulvetlhDaq neH qa'ma wItoblaH. qulvetlhDaq neH maHoSchoHlaH. puj Hoch meQlaHchu' qulvetlh neH. mupwI' lurur qay'wI' 'ej nuqIptaHvIS letchoH tIqmaj. nuqIptaHvIS HoSqu'choH qa'ma'. puqpu' maHtaHvIS, mapujbej.. qatlh ? SuSIv'a' ? maHvaD latlhpu' tu'lu'mo' 'ej wej qay'wI'mey DIbam. Do'Ha' ; Do'Ha'bej.. qay'wI'mey tlhej 'oy'. 'ach SaHtaHvIS qay'wI'mey - poHvam neH -, manenchoHlaH. 'IQ vItvam.. 'ach vIt neH 'oHbej. qa'ma' Dop puj wIteq wIneHchugh vaj ghe"or wa' qa'rI'vo' ghe''or latlh qa'rI'Daq wIve'nISlaH. pagh latlh mIw tu'lu'. tagha', toD'eghlaH HoSwI'pu' neH. nach velwI' qIj Sent from my goat phone
ghunchu'wI':
I've noticed you writing {wa'vam} a lot. I don't know what you mean. Is there a phrasing in Greek that is leaking through into your Klingon?
thank you for pointing this out, ghunchu'wI' ; you know, each time as soon as I finish each post, I wonder two things : 1. does anyone actually read, what I write ? 2. does my klingon make sense ? anyway, returning to your original question, I wrote {wa'vam jaj wIjIn}, trying to say "we wish for this one day". mop qIj qunnoq Sent from my goat phone
On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 4:16 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
anyway, returning to your original question, I wrote {wa'vam jaj wIjIn}, trying to say "we wish for this one day".
What you mean is not clear to me. Do you want "one day" to mean "at some future date" or "eventually"? Or are you trying to talk of a specific singular day? "This" doesn't stand alone as a pronoun in Klingon the way it does in English, but you can't just stick it on a convenient noun if that noun isn't what "this" is specifying. You might be trying to say {wa' jajvam}, though I'm not sure why you would say that. "This one" doesn't make much sense in Klingon with the number {wa'}, especially when what "one" is counting hasn't been stated, and I can't figure out what "day of this one" would mean. You also have a habit of putting phrases in an unusual order, with the main idea first and the context later. That's not a problem with grammar, but it is a style that makes the reader have to work a lot harder in order to understand what you're saying. For example:
qay'wI'mey bamlu' ; neH 'Iv ? pagh. 'a ngoDvam wIlIj : qay'wI'mey neH pagh 'a 'ut bIH.
The way you wrote this makes it look look like the {ngoD} you are talking about is the previous line instead of the following one. Klingon works better when you keep the entire object before the verb. -- ghunchu'wI'
ghunchu'wI':
"This one" doesn't make much sense in Klingon with the number {wa'}, especially when what "one" is counting hasn't been stated, and I can't figure out what "day of this one" would mean.
I can't understand why {wa'vam} doesn't make sense. However, because you're an expert I will take your word for it and not use it any more. jIH:
qay'wI'mey bamlu' ; neH 'Iv ? pagh. 'a ngoDvam wIlIj : qay'wI'mey neH pagh 'a 'ut bIH. ghunchu'wI': You also have a habit of putting phrases in an unusual order, with the main idea first and the context later. That's not a problem with grammar, but it is a style that makes the reader have to work a lot harder in order to understand what you're saying.
This is beautiful comment, and thank you for telling me. I hadn't realized I was doing this, but now that I realized it, I will correct myself in the future. ghunchu'wI', 'op ret, pIj maHarghchuq ; 'a tagha' reH choQaH. meqvammo' jIbel 'ej jIQuch. qabelmoHmeH tugh po'wI' vImoj. HIvoq ! (The above was written without a dictionary, so if anything appears weird, you know the reason..) mop qIj qunnoq On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 6:40 PM, Alan Anderson <qunchuy@alcaco.net> wrote:
On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 4:16 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
anyway, returning to your original question, I wrote {wa'vam jaj wIjIn}, trying to say "we wish for this one day".
What you mean is not clear to me. Do you want "one day" to mean "at some future date" or "eventually"? Or are you trying to talk of a specific singular day? "This" doesn't stand alone as a pronoun in Klingon the way it does in English, but you can't just stick it on a convenient noun if that noun isn't what "this" is specifying. You might be trying to say {wa' jajvam}, though I'm not sure why you would say that.
"This one" doesn't make much sense in Klingon with the number {wa'}, especially when what "one" is counting hasn't been stated, and I can't figure out what "day of this one" would mean.
You also have a habit of putting phrases in an unusual order, with the main idea first and the context later. That's not a problem with grammar, but it is a style that makes the reader have to work a lot harder in order to understand what you're saying. For example:
qay'wI'mey bamlu' ; neH 'Iv ? pagh. 'a ngoDvam wIlIj : qay'wI'mey neH pagh 'a 'ut bIH.
The way you wrote this makes it look look like the {ngoD} you are talking about is the previous line instead of the following one. Klingon works better when you keep the entire object before the verb.
-- ghunchu'wI' _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
On 8 August 2016 at 11:14, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
ghunchu'wI':
"This one" doesn't make much sense in Klingon with the number {wa'}, especially when what "one" is counting hasn't been stated, and I can't figure out what "day of this one" would mean.
I can't understand why {wa'vam} doesn't make sense.
The word "one" in English has multiple meanings, only one of which applies to the Klingon {wa'}. If I'm in a store and the Klingon storekeeper demands to know which of several similar items I want, I point and say {Dochvam}, not *{wa'vam}. In a police line-up, when I'm asked to identify the perpetrator, I point and say {nuvvetlh}, not *{wa'vetlh}. In English, "one" acts like a pronoun referring to a thing or person previously mentioned. It doesn't have this function in Klingon. -- De'vID
On 8/8/2016 6:30 AM, De'vID wrote:
On 8 August 2016 at 11:14, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
ghunchu'wI':
"This one" doesn't make much sense in Klingon with the number {wa'}, especially when what "one" is counting hasn't been stated, and I can't figure out what "day of this one" would mean. I can't understand why {wa'vam} doesn't make sense. The word "one" in English has multiple meanings, only one of which applies to the Klingon {wa'}.
If I'm in a store and the Klingon storekeeper demands to know which of several similar items I want, I point and say {Dochvam}, not *{wa'vam}. In a police line-up, when I'm asked to identify the perpetrator, I point and say {nuvvetlh}, not *{wa'vetlh}. In English, "one" acts like a pronoun referring to a thing or person previously mentioned. It doesn't have this function in Klingon.
I wouldn't be too quick to say this. TKD 5.2: Numbers are used as nouns. As such, they may stand alone as subjects or objects or they may modify another noun. *mulegh cha'* /Two (of them) see me./ (*mulegh* /they see me,**/*cha'* /two/) *wa' yIHoH* /Kill one (of them)!/ (*wa'* /one,/ *yIHoH* /kill him/her!/) Now, the important thing here is that the examples demonstrate using numbers in a /partitive/ sense. That is, you're pointing out a certain number out of a whole. If this is the only way numbers can be used as nouns, then you can't use the **wa'vam* and **wa'vetlh *examples above. But the text doesn't make it explicit that this is the only way to use numbers as nouns. That said, I agree that mayqel's use of **wa'vam* is odd, and probably doesn't work. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
qunnoq: to help us English-speakers understand what you’re trying to say, what do you think is the difference (if any) between : wa'vam jaj wIjIn we wish for this one day and jajvam wa’ wIjIn jaj wa’vam wIjIn wa jajvam wIjIn jajvam wIjIn -- Voragh From: tlhIngan-Hol [mailto:tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org] On Behalf Of mayqel qunenoS Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2016 3:16 AM ghunchu'wI':
I've noticed you writing {wa'vam} a lot. I don't know what you mean. Is there a phrasing in Greek that is leaking through into your Klingon?
anyway, returning to your original question, I wrote {wa'vam jaj wIjIn}, trying to say "we wish for this one day". mop qIj qunnoq Sent from my goat phone
voragh:
qunnoq: to help us English-speakers understand what you’re trying to say, what do you think is the difference (if any) between :
jajvam wa’ wIjIn
I would interpret this as "we wish for this day's one"
jaj wa’vam wIjIn
this would be "we wish for this one of the day"
wa jajvam wIjIn
I would read this as "we wish for this day of the one"
jajvam wIjIn
and of course "we wish for this day" ok, yes.. I understand that all the above examples with the exception of the last are quite senseless. Now, if you ask me, "how is your own {wa'vam jaj wIjIn} any different from the above", then I honestly can't provide a explanation. Perhaps it is a carry-over from what I would say in greek : "we wish for this one day". And perhaps, I used it because there is a greek word which means "unique", which can also be used to describe the "singular state" of an item. And now that I'm thinking of it, perhaps here is what happened : Thinking in greek I wanted to write "this one day" ; because in klingon there is no word for "unique", I used the klingon word {wa'} which would express the other meaning of the greek "unique". Now, I see the confusion.. Anyway, from now on I will just say {jajvam} or even better {jajvam le'}, so we will all be happy ! mop qIj qunnoq On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 5:46 PM, Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu> wrote:
qunnoq: to help us English-speakers understand what you’re trying to say, what do you think is the difference (if any) between :
wa'vam jaj wIjIn
we wish for this one day
and
jajvam wa’ wIjIn
jaj wa’vam wIjIn
wa jajvam wIjIn
jajvam wIjIn
--
Voragh
From: tlhIngan-Hol [mailto:tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org] On Behalf Of mayqel qunenoS Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2016 3:16 AM
ghunchu'wI':
I've noticed you writing {wa'vam} a lot. I don't know what you mean. Is there a phrasing in Greek that is leaking through into your Klingon?
anyway, returning to your original question, I wrote {wa'vam jaj wIjIn}, trying to say "we wish for this one day".
mop qIj qunnoq Sent from my goat phone
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
qunnoq:
Now, if you ask me, "how is your own {wa'vam jaj wIjIn} any different from the above", then I honestly can't provide a explanation. Perhaps it is a carry-over from what I would say in Greek : "we wish for this one day". And perhaps, I used it because there is a Greek word which means "unique", which can also be used to describe the "singular state" of an item.
And now that I'm thinking of it, perhaps here is what happened : Thinking in Greek I wanted to write "this one day" ; because in Klingon there is no word for "unique", I used the Klingon word {wa'} which would express the other meaning of the Greek "unique".
Usually the simplest solution is the best. {jajvam} is already unique by definition: i.e. this day vs. every other day (past, present, future). But if you really want to distinguish {jajvam} further, I think the closest idea in Klingon for "be unique" is {le'} "be special, be exceptional" : tlhIngan jabbI'ID le' Special Klingon issue (ST:Comm) puqloDwI' le'qu', Hoch jaj choquvmoH My dearest son, each day you redeem me. (Frasier) boSwI'vaD veyvam le' chenmoHlu' Collector's Edition. MKE Duj ghajchugh vay', cha'logh boq'egh qav'ap motlh; chen qav'ap le'. ghajwI'vaD qav'ap le' yIDIl. If [ship is] owned, pay owner twice the rental to which they are otherwise entitled. MKE vs. {le'be'} "be unexceptional, be nonspecific, be general" : nav HablI' le'be' general FAX (machine) Mark Mandel describes the origin of this in HQ 5.2: Since my office is in a different building from the company reception desk I prefer to give people the number of the FAX machine closest to my desk. I put both numbers on the letter- head, labeling them in English Klingon FAX and general FAX. Dr. Okrand suggested {le'be'} for general, and so of course that's what I used. There's also the similar pair {motlh} "be usual, be normal, be standard" : nay' motlh usual dish (a dish with a standard preparation technique) KGT nISwI' HIch motlh HoS Hal qengwI' naQ tIq je lurarlu'bogh 'oH tlhIngan nISwI' beH'e' The Klingon disruptor rifle is a standard hand held disruptor, attached to an extended power supply stock. S14 qughDo motlh: pIvlob vagh Normal Cruising Speed - Warp 5. KBoP Duj ghajchugh vay', cha'logh boq'egh qav'ap motlh; chen qav'ap le'. ghajwI'vaD qav'ap le' yIDIl. If [ship is] owned, pay owner twice the rental to which they are otherwise entitled. MKE vs. {motlhbe'} "be unusual" : tera'ngan motlhbe' SoH You are an unusual Terran. PK -- Voragh tlhIngan ghantoH pIn'a' Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
participants (5)
-
Alan Anderson -
De'vID -
mayqel qunenoS -
Steven Boozer -
SuStel