I have been enjoying seeing the different options proposed. I like both of these contrasting pairs: chu'wI' / ngo'wI' - newcomer / old-timer (proposed by De'vID) taghwI' / taHwI' - beginner / survivor (proposed by loghaD; seconded by voragh) I like chu'wI'/ngo'wI' for its simplicity and clarity, and its suitability to just about any context; I like taghwI'/taHwI' for the same reasons, and also because it is a minimal pair demonstrating the contrast between gh and H, and really emphasizes proper speech, as voragh mentioned. However, that could also be a source of confusion, e.g. when listening to a poor quality recording. The words are also indistinguishable from each other when whispered. I think if the situation is appropriate, SIQwI' “endurer” might be good. Perhaps it might even be appropriate in a general sense. It can also take aspect suffixes to indicate whether the experience endured is complete (QI' SIQpu'wI' - one who has served in the military and is no longer in active duty; a common use of the word “veteran”) or actively occurring (Quj'a' SIQtaHwI' - one who is experienced in a sport and still participating in it; another common use of “veteran”). In response to this note from Quvar:

PS: veteran in the military sense might be {SuvwI' po'} or {SuvwI' qan}.

tlhIngan SuvwI'pu' qan tu'lu'be'.

On Jul 13, 2018, at 23:36, Jackson Bradley <j.monroe.bradley@gmail.com> wrote:

chu'Ha'wI'? An un-newcomer?

2018-07-13 21:53 GMT-04:00 seruq <seruq@bellsouth.net>:

...

How about bampu'wI'? or: bamta'wI' bamchu'wI' or what fine-tuning is appropriate.

- DloraH

-------------------------------------------- On Fri, 7/13/18, Alan Anderson <qunchuy@alcaco.net> wrote:

Subject: [tlhIngan Hol] "rookie" vs "veteran" To: "Klingon language email discussion forum" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org> Date: Friday, July 13, 2018, 12:02 AM

I am trying to find a pair of relatively simple words that I can use to label people as the equivalent of rookies (it's their first time experiencing something) or veterans (they've been through it before).

I like {chu'wI'} "newcomer", but I can't decide what to use as its counterpart. Have any of you ever needed this kind of distinction, and if so, did you come up with anything satisfactory?

-- ghunchu'wI'_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org

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Maybe instead of using {bam}, use the related word {DIgh}, perhaps {DIghpu'wI'} "one who has dealt with (something)." I'd also be inclined to pair {chu'chu'wI'} (one who is clearly/perfectly new) for a newbie with {ta'ta'wI'} (one who has deliberately accomplished) for an old pro, and that covers about the same territory as rookie/veteran. ~mIp'av On Monday, July 16, 2018, Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu> wrote:

bam     face,  have the prospect of having to deal with (v) (qepHom 201    Qob lIb bam SoH chuDlI' je    You and your people are in danger. STID

I'm not sure I see it.  If anything, these sound like something a Beginner's Grammarian would call themselves in jest.

--Voragh

-----------------------------------Original Message----------------------------------- From: seruq Sent: Friday, July 13, 2018 8:53 PM

How about bampu'wI'? or: bamta'wI' bamchu'wI' or what fine-tuning is appropriate.

- DloraH

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Fri, 7/13/18, Alan Anderson <qunchuy@alcaco.net> wrote: Date: Friday, July 13, 2018, 12:02 AM

 I am trying to find a pair of relatively simple words that I can use to label  people as the equivalent of rookies (it's their first  time experiencing something) or veterans (they've been  through it before).

 I  like {chu'wI'} "newcomer", but I can't decide what to use as its counterpart. Have any of  you ever needed this kind of distinction, and if so, did you  come up with anything satisfactory?

 --  ghunchu'wI'

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