I'd like to do some nitpicking, and I'm saying this, because I know there is not much difference. I'm working on the entry for {'elI'jaH}. In a message from Qov after the qep'a' 2007, she wrote: "uninvited guest" The KLI's new word list says "unexpected guest" (with the wrong qep'a' number, btw) In boQwI', this is defined as "unexpected visitor". Hol 'ampaS is showing both: "Unexpected visitor, uninvited guest" ...... I know there is not much (or none) difference, but is there somehow an initial definition, one that we could agree on? I always try to keep things as accurate as possible. Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.de http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/NewWordsQepa14
Here's what I have in my notes (some of it from you): (Qov 8/02/2007): paqDaq latlh mu' ghaj Okrand 'e' vIlegh. <'el'I'jaH> 'oHlaw'. 'ej "uninvited guest" 'oS. mu'vetlh maqbejbe'mo' chaq mu'na' bIHbe'. ('ISqu' 8/11/2007): The word Okrand wrote in my notebook during last year's qep'a' [i.e. 2006] was spelled {'elI'jaH}. The English translation, written by Lawrence below the Klingon word, was "unexpected visitor". 'ISqu had a screenshot of her notebook at http://muchmich.yolasite.com/hasta.php [I don't know if it's still online; my university's IT Security people have blocked "as a security precaution" when I checked it just now. Proceed at your own risk.] PUN: In Jewish tradition there should always be an empty place setting at the Shabbat and Passover Seder table just in case Elijah turns up. If a guest comes unexpectedly, he would sit there -- he may well be Elijah in disguise. (MO to Lieven, 11/23?/2008): {nIyma'} is the Klingon word for phantom or apparition -- something that seems to appear, but isn't really there. It's not the same as ghost, which is the spirit of a dead person (and may or may not look like that person, or may not be visible at all), and it's not the same as spirit (or {qa'}), which is sort of a life force within a person (that escapes when a person dies and may exist somewhere somehow). He said using {qa'} for ghost was OK, but I got the impression there may be another word as well (though he didn't offer one). He said that although the word doesn't really mean "invited guest that doesn't show up", it made a lot of sense to him to use {nIyma'} to refer to such a person. PUN: (Lieven, 9/29/2016): Nima is the name of a [7th (November 2008)] qepHom attendee [at the 7th German qepHom'a' (November 2008)] who was most of the time absent. Students were joking whether *nima* may be Klingon for the opposite of "uninvited guest" {'elIjaH}, so a guest who does not show up. By the way, Maltz was surprised that we knew that word. -- Voragh Ca'Non Master of the Klingons ----------------------------------------Original Message---------------------------------------- From: Lieven L. Litaer I'd like to do some nitpicking, and I'm saying this, because I know there is not much difference. I'm working on the entry for {'elI'jaH}. In a message from Qov after the qep'a' 2007, she wrote: "uninvited guest" The KLI's new word list says "unexpected guest" (with the wrong qep'a' number, btw) In boQwI', this is defined as "unexpected visitor". Hol 'ampaS is showing both: "Unexpected visitor, uninvited guest" ...... I know there is not much (or none) difference, but is there somehow an initial definition, one that we could agree on? I always try to keep things as accurate as possible.
On Tue, 10 Mar 2020 at 19:34, Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu> wrote:
Here's what I have in my notes (some of it from you):
(Qov 8/02/2007): paqDaq latlh mu' ghaj Okrand 'e' vIlegh. <'el'I'jaH> 'oHlaw'. 'ej "uninvited guest" 'oS. mu'vetlh maqbejbe'mo' chaq mu'na' bIHbe'.
Maybe the definition mutated as it was passed along and/or misremembered. Or maybe Okrand glossed it in slightly different ways to different people.
('ISqu' 8/11/2007): The word Okrand wrote in my notebook during last year's qep'a' [i.e. 2006] was spelled {'elI'jaH}. The English translation, written by Lawrence below the Klingon word, was "unexpected visitor".
'ISqu had a screenshot of her notebook at http://muchmich.yolasite.com/hasta.php [I don't know if it's still online; my university's IT Security people have blocked "as a security precaution" when I checked it just now. Proceed at your own risk.]
'ISqu''s notebook is the source of the definition in {boQwI'} "unexpected visitor". Since it was written down presumably immediately or soon after it was revealed, it seems much more likely to be reliable. You can still see a photo of the original notebook page here: http://muchmich.yolasite.com/resources/ElijaH.jpg -- De'vID
Am 11.03.2020 um 07:10 schrieb De'vID:
Maybe the definition mutated as it was passed along and/or misremembered. Or maybe Okrand glossed it in slightly different ways to different people. [...] 'ISqu''s notebook is the source of the definition in {boQwI'}
Thanks for the source. On her page, 'ISqu' wrote that it was written by Okrand (mu'vam chu' ghItlhta' Holmaj pIn'a'), so I think I'll prefer this as a main definition, even remembering that other definitions *might* have been passed as well. AS I wrote before, it's not much difference anyway. maj. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.de http://www.klingonwiki.net/Word/-elI-jaH
On Wed, 11 Mar 2020 at 07:53, Lieven L. Litaer <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
Am 11.03.2020 um 07:10 schrieb De'vID:
Maybe the definition mutated as it was passed along and/or misremembered. Or maybe Okrand glossed it in slightly different ways to different people. [...] 'ISqu''s notebook is the source of the definition in {boQwI'}
Thanks for the source. On her page, 'ISqu' wrote that it was written by Okrand (mu'vam chu' ghItlhta' Holmaj pIn'a'), so I think I'll prefer this as a main definition, even remembering that other definitions *might* have been passed as well.
The *word* itself was written by Okrand, but note that the *definition* was written down by Lawrence Schoen. As noted by Voragh above:
('ISqu' 8/11/2007): The word Okrand wrote in my notebook during last year's qep'a' [i.e. 2006] was spelled {'elI'jaH}. The English translation, written by Lawrence below the Klingon word, was "unexpected visitor".
-- De'vID
Thanks to Voragh for the details... which lead me to a next question/irregularity: Am 10.03.2020 um 19:34 schrieb Steven Boozer:
(Qov 8/02/2007): paqDaq latlh mu' ghaj Okrand
('ISqu' 8/11/2007): The word Okrand wrote in my notebook during last year's qep'a' [i.e. 2006] was spelled {'elI'jaH}.
Both messages are from 2007, but the second writes "last year's qep'a'". Could that be a mistake, refering to the "last" qep'a' being the one in the same year? -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.de http://www.klingonwiki.net/Word/-elI-jaH
That could be. "i.e. 2006" may have been an interpolation by me when I added it to my notes over thirteen years ago. Since 'ISqu's message was in August and IIRC qep'a'mey are usually held in July, she could have meant "last" in the sense of previous or most recent one, e.g. "in the last episode of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" referring to part one of a two-part story. This ambiguity is fairly common in English. -- Voragh -----------------------------------Original Message----------------------------------- From: Lieven L. Litaer Thanks to Voragh for the details... which lead me to a next question/irregularity: Am 10.03.2020 um 19:34 schrieb Steven Boozer:
(Qov 8/02/2007): paqDaq latlh mu' ghaj Okrand
('ISqu' 8/11/2007): The word Okrand wrote in my notebook during last year's qep'a' [i.e. 2006] was spelled {'elI'jaH}.
Both messages are from 2007, but the second writes "last year's qep'a'". Could that be a mistake, refering to the "last" qep'a' being the one in the same year?
participants (3)
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De'vID -
Lieven L. Litaer -
Steven Boozer