literal meaning of the {net jalchugh}
Suppose I write: SuvwI'na' SoH net jalchugh, vaj bISuvqang. There are two options with regards to this sentence. Option A: The literal meaning of this sentence is "if you were a true warrior, you'd be willing to fight". Option B: The literal meaning of the sentence is "if one imagines that you're a true warrior, you're willing to fight". In option A, the {net jalchugh} gives to the sentence the literal meaning of irrealis. In option B, there's no irrealis as far as the literal translation of the sentence is concerned, but we read and understand it as irrealis because maltz said so. So what's the correct option? ~ Dana'an remain klingon
On 2/23/2021 8:06 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
Suppose I write: SuvwI'na' SoH net jalchugh, vaj bISuvqang.
There are two options with regards to this sentence.
Option A: The literal meaning of this sentence is "if you were a true warrior, you'd be willing to fight".
Option B: The literal meaning of the sentence is "if one imagines that you're a true warrior, you're willing to fight".
In option A, the {net jalchugh} gives to the sentence the literal meaning of irrealis.
In option B, there's no irrealis as far as the literal translation of the sentence is concerned, but we read and understand it as irrealis because maltz said so.
So what's the correct option?
You are thinking in English, not Klingon. *net jalchugh* means exactly what it says /and/ introduces an irrealis. It isn't interpreted as two separate things. The fact that the construction can be translated in English one way with an irrealis and another way without one is irrelevant to how the Klingon works. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
On 2/23/2021 9:20 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
SuStel:
You are thinking in English, not Klingon. net jalchugh means exactly what it says and introduces an irrealis.
But this is what I don't understand; what does the {net jalchugh} say? "if you are" or "if you were"?
It says /if one imagines./ The sentence that precedes it is the situation that one might imagine. Since it is imagined, it is not real, thus an irrealis. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
Here’s Okrand’s post to Lieven for review: (Lieven < MO, qepHom, 11/03/2016): For a statement that's counterfactual (or "irrealis"), a phrase with the verb jal ("imagine, envision") is used: {... net jalchugh} ("if one imagines that…", "if it is imagined that…"). For example: {tlhIngan SoH net jalchugh, qagh DatIv} This is "If you were a Klingon, you would enjoy gagh" or, literally, "If one imagines that you are a Klingon, you would enjoy gagh." The implication is that you are not a Klingon. Compare: {qaghwIj DaSopchugh, qaHoH} "If you eat my gagh, I'll kill you." {qaghwIj DaSop net jalchugh, qaHoH} "If you were eating my gagh, I would kill you" (literally: "If one imagines that you are eating my gagh …"). -- Voragh, Ca'Non Master of the Klingons ______________________________________________________________________ From: SuStel On 2/23/2021 9:20 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote: SuStel:
You are thinking in English, not Klingon. net jalchugh means exactly what it says and introduces an irrealis.
But this is what I don't understand; what does the {net jalchugh} say? "if you are" or "if you were"? It says if one imagines. The sentence that precedes it is the situation that one might imagine. Since it is imagined, it is not real, thus an irrealis. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/trimboli.name__;!!BpyFHLRN4TMTrA!sYtENkdcTxFsX87WEb0ek4ctvkHrC6JyJE0XdobZ8XpkiHwt4y0OwTrqwXTKxUnCM-Y$>
participants (3)
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mayqel qunen'oS -
Steven Boozer -
SuStel