When we "listen to music" what do we use ? {'Ij} or {Qoy} ? Or both ?
If we want to say that someone "is listening music", then what do we use ? {'Ij} or {Qoy} ? Or both ? qunnoq
On 8/10/2017 10:17 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
If we want to say that someone "is listening music", then what do we use ? {'Ij} or {Qoy} ? Or both ?
I don't think we know this one either, but Okrand makes a distinction between the verbs in TKW: The verb *Qoy* means "hear," not just "listen." One must actually perceive and understand that which is being said. This doesn't tell whether one does *Qoy* or *'Ij* to music, but it implies that one can *'Ij* without actually*Qoy*-ing anything. *'Ij* seems to be the active attempt to detect sound; *Qoy* is the passive fact that sound has been detected. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
qen Daq chu' vIDabchoHta'. ghojwI'pu' chaH juHwIj Deq yoS luDabbogh HochHom'e'. pa' pIj qaS lopmey, vaj pIj QoQ vIQoy. vI'Ijbe' 'ach vIQoy. QoQ vI'IjmeH, qoghDu'wIj qatbogh jan'e' vItuQ. loQ Hur wabmey nIS, vaj jIlpu'wI' QoQ vI'IjHa'meH vIlo'laH. ________________________________ From: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org> on behalf of SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2017 4:28:16 PM To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org Subject: Re: [tlhIngan Hol] When we "listen to music" what do we use ? {'Ij} or {Qoy} ? Or both ? On 8/10/2017 10:17 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote: If we want to say that someone "is listening music", then what do we use ? {'Ij} or {Qoy} ? Or both ? I don't think we know this one either, but Okrand makes a distinction between the verbs in TKW: The verb Qoy means "hear," not just "listen." One must actually perceive and understand that which is being said. This doesn't tell whether one does Qoy or 'Ij to music, but it implies that one can 'Ij without actually Qoy-ing anything. 'Ij seems to be the active attempt to detect sound; Qoy is the passive fact that sound has been detected. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
On Thu, 2017-08-10 at 10:28 -0400, SuStel wrote:
On 8/10/2017 10:17 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
If we want to say that someone "is listening music", then what do we use ? {'Ij} or {Qoy} ? Or both ?
I don't think we know this one either, but Okrand makes a distinction between the verbs in TKW:
The verb *Qoy* means "hear," not just "listen." One must actually perceive and understand that which is being said.
This doesn't tell whether one does *Qoy* or *'Ij* to music, but it implies that one can *'Ij* without actually*Qoy*-ing anything. *'Ij* seems to be the active attempt to detect sound; *Qoy* is the passive fact that sound has been detected.
I wonder if this is similar to nej and Sam. One can nej for something and possibly not find it. nej doesn't specify whether one finds what they're looking for or not. Sam tells us that they looked for it and indeed did find it. Maybe 'Ij is that one listens, but if it turns out there is no sound, they end up not hearing (Qoy) anything. A-"Listen ('Ij) for the guard." B-"I don't hear (Qoy) anybody coming." or B-"Yes, I hear (Qoy) him. Quick, hide." - DloraH
On 10 August 2017 at 16:28, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
On 8/10/2017 10:17 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
If we want to say that someone "is listening music", then what do we use ? {'Ij} or {Qoy} ? Or both ?
I would say that if the music is just on while you're doing something else, it's {'Ij}. But if you're actually actively thinking about the lyrics, it's {Qoy}.
I don't think we know this one either, but Okrand makes a distinction between the verbs in TKW:
The verb Qoy means "hear," not just "listen." One must actually perceive and understand that which is being said.
This doesn't tell whether one does Qoy or 'Ij to music, but it implies that one can 'Ij without actually Qoy-ing anything. 'Ij seems to be the active attempt to detect sound; Qoy is the passive fact that sound has been detected.
The English word "hear" is weird in that it's used both for passive sound detection ("suddenly, he heard a noise") and for active comprehension ("the crowd hear Kahless' call for unity and join together as one"). We have several examples of {Qoy} in canon, which should clarify its meaning. {HIQoymoH} "let me hear (something)" (TKD) {jach SuvwI' 'e' yIQoy!} "Hear the warrior cry out!" (TKW) {'IwlIj ghogh yIQoy.} "Listen to the voice of your blood." (TKW) {Qoy qeylIS puqloD, Qoy puqbe'pu'} "Hear! Sons of Kahless. Hear! Daughters too." (Star Trek: Klingon CD) -- De'vID
-----Original Message-----
On 8/10/2017 10:17 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
If we want to say that someone "is listening music", then what do we use ? {'Ij} or {Qoy} ? Or both ?
From: tlhIngan-Hol [mailto:tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org] On Behalf Of De'vID The English word "hear" is weird in that it's used both for passive sound detection ("suddenly, he heard a noise") and for active comprehension ("the crowd hear Kahless' call for unity and join together as one"). We have several examples of {Qoy} in canon, which should clarify its meaning. {HIQoymoH} "let me hear (something)" (TKD) {jach SuvwI' 'e' yIQoy!} "Hear the warrior cry out!" (TKW) {'IwlIj ghogh yIQoy.} "Listen to the voice of your blood." (TKW) {Qoy qeylIS puqloD, Qoy puqbe'pu'} "Hear! Sons of Kahless. Hear! Daughters too." (Star Trek: Klingon CD) _______________________________________________ More examples of {Qoy}: 'arlogh wab Qoylu'pu'? How many times has someone heard the sound? How many times has the sound been heard? (i.e. What time is it?) [st.k 2/99] qen 'arlogh Qoylu'pu'? Recently, how many times has someone heard it? (i.e. What time is it?) [st.k 2/99] De'vetlh vIQoy, vaj jIQuch I am happy to hear that information. KGT yuQmajDaq may' ghe'naQ[na'] wa'DIch wIQoybogh 'oH 'u'['e'] [corrected] <'u'> will be the first authentic battle opera performed on our planet. ('U'-MTK) qeylIS tIghmey'e' DaH tIQoy Hear now, [...] The ways of Kahless PB SaqSubDaq pagh Qoylu' Qong SuvwI'pu' puqpu' rur Heghrup loSlI' In the Saq'sub all is quiet, its warriors asleep, like children waiting for death to come. PB 'ej Hoch vengHomDaq Hoch vengDaq je Suchbogh ghaH qeylIS luQoy woQ le'yo' je 'aghbej ghaH And Kahless spoke to them in every village and city he went, filled with pride and authority, (PB) Daq SumHa'vo' wab Huj Qoylu' qa' bIQ Dujvo' qab Qoylu' Strange sounds come from afar, It is the barge of the Dead," toDuj lutraj quv lutraj je QoymoH tlhIngan tuqmey tIja' To tell the Klingon tribes their story of courage, And honor. (PB) ghobmeH qeylIS lutlhej qeylIS qeylIS qeylIS qeylIS bop Hoch'e' Qoybogh qotar [translation not available] (PB) luqara' retlhwIjDaq yIba'neS 'ej lutwIj yIQoy choQaHlaw' [translation not available] (PB) lutvam bejlu'taHvIS, tlhIngan Hol mu'tlheghmey chu'qu' vIchenmoHbogh luQoylu'. It's [i.e. ST3] the film for which I devised Klingon... (ASM) I found only two examples of {'Ij} "listen" in context: DIvI' Se' wI'IjtaHvIS DaH ngoqDe' wIHevta' We've just received an encoded message on the Federation frequency. (ST5 notes) vIHbe'choH latlh SuvwI'pu' bey HoS QoymeH 'IjmeH QamtaH [translation not available] (PB) Note that the last paq'batlh example is used together with {Qoy}. --Voragh
participants (6)
-
De'vID -
DloraH -
Felix Malmenbeck -
mayqel qunenoS -
Steven Boozer -
SuStel