Qapla'! ghojchoHwI' jIH. tlhIngan Hol vIjatlhHa', 'ach mu'ghom vIlaDlaH. wej ngoDHommey jIHvaD vIghajbe'. I noticed talk about neutral gender yesterday, which leads me to ask about LGBT terminology as a whole, since it's heavily gendered language. Concerning trans people, I've defaulted to be' ghe'/be' ghe'pu' and loD ghe'/loD ghe'pu', but I welcome any suggestions. As for gay/lesbian/bi and straight people, I'm have no idea, although I know it's been at least implied by MO before. Anybody know how one would say that? Thanks for maintaining this mailing list.
On 5/29/2019 12:00 PM, Riley Dosh wrote:
Qapla'!
ghojchoHwI' jIH. tlhIngan Hol vIjatlhHa', 'ach mu'ghom vIlaDlaH. wej ngoDHommey jIHvaD vIghajbe'.
I noticed talk about neutral gender yesterday, which leads me to ask about LGBT terminology as a whole, since it's heavily gendered language.
Concerning trans people, I've defaulted to be' ghe'/be' ghe'pu' and loD ghe'/loD ghe'pu', but I welcome any suggestions.
As for gay/lesbian/bi and straight people, I'm have no idea, although I know it's been at least implied by MO before. Anybody know how one would say that?
Thanks for maintaining this mailing list.
Is *ghe'* your transliteration of /gay?/ Please don't transliterate terms that should be translated. If you can't translate it, keep it in its original form. A very crude way of saying /gay///or /lesbian/ might be *loD ngaghbogh loD*/man who mates with a man/ or *be' ngaghbogh be'*/woman who mates with a woman./ This, of course, doesn't account for the entire spectrum of preferences. You could go on with *loD be' je ngaghbogh loD*/man who mates with men and women/ and*loD be' je ngaghbogh be'*/woman who mates with men and women./ /Trans/ might be *be' mojpu'bogh loD*/man who has become a woman/ and *loD mojpu'bogh be'*/woman who has become a man,/ though this might be insulting to trans people ("I'm not a woman who has become a man; I'm a man!"). And so on. I don't particularly like any of those as translations, but we don't have any information about how Klingons might talk about these things. Klingons are typically depicted as somewhat xenophobic, sexist, and intolerant; they might not be sensitive to these classifications. Since in English these terms are all jargon and re-appropriated pejoratives rather than neutral descriptive words, we might expect LGBTQ Klingons to name themselves in the same way, in which case no amount of searching for the right words is going to give us the right terms. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
On Wed, 29 May 2019 at 18:19, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
On 5/29/2019 12:00 PM, Riley Dosh wrote:
Concerning trans people, I've defaulted to be' ghe'/be' ghe'pu' and loD ghe'/loD ghe'pu', but I welcome any suggestions.
Is *ghe'* your transliteration of *gay?*
tlhIngan Hol mu'na' 'oH {ghe'}'e'. --- begin quote --- The Klingon verb {ghe'} is the one most likely to be involved here. It means "be transformed, transmuted, metamorphosed, totally altered." In context, if someone said {maS Daghe'moH'a'?} (literally "Are you transforming a moon?"), this would be understood to mean "Are you terraforming a moon?" If context isn't clear, then there'd have to be more verbiage: {tera' chu' DachenmoHmeH, maS Daghe'moH'a'?} "In order to create a new Earth, are you transforming a moon?") or {maSDaq yInmeH Humanpu', 'oH Daghe'moH'a'?} "In order that Humans live [be alive] on the moon, are you transforming it?" or {yInvaD maS Daghe'moH'a'?} "Are you transforming a moon to benefit life?" (clunky translation). --- end quote --- -- De'vID
On 5/29/2019 12:19 PM, SuStel wrote:
Is *ghe'* your transliteration of /gay?/ Please don't transliterate terms that should be translated. If you can't translate it, keep it in its original form.
Ohhhhh, you're using *ghe'*/be transformed/ specifically for trans people. My bad. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 12:01 PM Riley Dosh <rjl.dosh@gmail.com> wrote:
Qapla'!
ghojchoHwI' jIH. tlhIngan Hol vIjatlhHa', 'ach mu'ghom vIlaDlaH. wej ngoDHommey jIHvaD vIghajbe'.
I noticed talk about neutral gender yesterday, which leads me to ask about LGBT terminology as a whole, since it's heavily gendered language.
Concerning trans people, I've defaulted to be' ghe'/be' ghe'pu' and loD ghe'/loD ghe'pu', but I welcome any suggestions.
The versions with *-pu'* would need to be relative clauses, since verbs used as adjectives can't take *-pu'*. *ghe'pu'bogh be'* or *ghe'pu'bogh loD*. You might also try the *-ta'* suffix, which indicates a completed accomplishment, as in *ghe'ta'bogh be'*. In an LGBT context it's probably fine, but outside of LGBT contexts it probably wouldn't immediately be interpreted as a reference to trans people.
As for gay/lesbian/bi and straight people, I'm have no idea, although I know it's been at least implied by MO before. Anybody know how one would say that?
There aren't really any words regarding sexual orientation or attraction, so translating those concepts might be wordy. There's also the issue of how exactly relative clauses with *nga'chuq* would work. *nga'chuqbogh loDpu' loD'e' je* for "man who has sex with men"? *nga'chuqbogh be'pu' loDpu' be''e' je* for "woman who has sex with men and women"? Such a construction might be acceptable, but without further insight, it's definitely pushing up against the boundaries of the known grammar. *ngagh* doesn't have that particular issue, but I'm not sure it has quite the right connotations.
I've started using *Har'ey*, rainbow, to refer to LGBTQ+ people: *Har'ey tach*, *Har'eynganpu*', *Har'ey loD ghaH'a' *etc. DeSDu' and I came up with this while sitting in a gay bar and struggling to talk about it. This is decidedly not canon, and has nothing to do with fictional Klingons. I also don't hate *le'yo'*, pride, being used with lgbtq connotations. (Google Klingon Pride and there's a good picture of the Timmins Klingons with a *le'yo'* sign.) I don't have a good way to be more specific than that, yet. *le'yo'ngan ghaH, loD ghaH parmaqqayDaj'e'. *??? Tangent: Think of the valences *maqoch* and *chaj *could take on in some gay/lesbian/bi/pan fiction! Another tangent: *SIHwI' *and *SIHmoHwI'* for "top" and "bottom." -- John Harness Mr. / He / Him The Condo Association <https://thecondoassociation.com/> Klingon Language Institute <http://www.kli.org/> Language Creation Society <https://conlang.org/> On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 11:01 AM Riley Dosh <rjl.dosh@gmail.com> wrote:
Qapla'!
ghojchoHwI' jIH. tlhIngan Hol vIjatlhHa', 'ach mu'ghom vIlaDlaH. wej ngoDHommey jIHvaD vIghajbe'.
I noticed talk about neutral gender yesterday, which leads me to ask about LGBT terminology as a whole, since it's heavily gendered language.
Concerning trans people, I've defaulted to be' ghe'/be' ghe'pu' and loD ghe'/loD ghe'pu', but I welcome any suggestions.
As for gay/lesbian/bi and straight people, I'm have no idea, although I know it's been at least implied by MO before. Anybody know how one would say that?
Thanks for maintaining this mailing list. _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
Just to offer an alternative that I don’t think I’ve seen voiced yet: parmaq’e’ loD maSbogh loD ghaH. and the equivalent {be’} phrase. Love is love. charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.
On May 29, 2019, at 12:53 PM, John R. Harness <cartweel@gmail.com> wrote:
I've started using Har'ey, rainbow, to refer to LGBTQ+ people: Har'ey tach, Har'eynganpu', Har'ey loD ghaH'a' etc. DeSDu' and I came up with this while sitting in a gay bar and struggling to talk about it.
This is decidedly not canon, and has nothing to do with fictional Klingons. I also don't hate le'yo', pride, being used with lgbtq connotations. (Google Klingon Pride and there's a good picture of the Timmins Klingons with a le'yo' sign.) I don't have a good way to be more specific than that, yet. le'yo'ngan ghaH, loD ghaH parmaqqayDaj'e'. ???
Tangent: Think of the valences maqoch and chaj could take on in some gay/lesbian/bi/pan fiction! Another tangent: SIHwI' and SIHmoHwI' for "top" and "bottom."
-- John Harness Mr. / He / Him
The Condo Association <https://thecondoassociation.com/> Klingon Language Institute <http://www.kli.org/> Language Creation Society <https://conlang.org/>
On Wed, May 29, 2019 at 11:01 AM Riley Dosh <rjl.dosh@gmail.com <mailto:rjl.dosh@gmail.com>> wrote: Qapla'!
ghojchoHwI' jIH. tlhIngan Hol vIjatlhHa', 'ach mu'ghom vIlaDlaH. wej ngoDHommey jIHvaD vIghajbe'.
I noticed talk about neutral gender yesterday, which leads me to ask about LGBT terminology as a whole, since it's heavily gendered language.
Concerning trans people, I've defaulted to be' ghe'/be' ghe'pu' and loD ghe'/loD ghe'pu', but I welcome any suggestions.
As for gay/lesbian/bi and straight people, I'm have no idea, although I know it's been at least implied by MO before. Anybody know how one would say that?
Thanks for maintaining this mailing list. _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org <mailto:tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org> http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org <http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org> _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
participants (6)
-
De'vID -
John R. Harness -
nIqolay Q -
Riley Dosh -
SuStel -
Will Martin