Is there a canon precedent for a phrase like "The day on which xy happened"? Like in "remember the day we first met". {maqIHbogh jaj} sounds wrong. The only thing that came to my mind was from the Drinking song, but I think that one is not considered a best example, is it? {jaj qeylIS molor mIgh Hoghchu'qu'} "The day on which Khaless" killed evil Molor. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka Quvar valer 'utlh Grammarian of the KLI http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher www.klingonwiki.net/En/DrinkingSong
On 5/24/2017 3:03 PM, Lieven wrote:
Is there a canon precedent for a phrase like "The day on which xy happened"? Like in "remember the day we first met". {maqIHbogh jaj} sounds wrong.
The only thing that came to my mind was from the Drinking song, but I think that one is not considered a best example, is it?
{jaj qeylIS molor mIgh Hoghchu'qu'} "The day on which Khaless" killed evil Molor.
/The Klingon Way,/ p. 177: *wa' jaj 'etlh 'uchchoHlaH tlhIngan puqloD; jajvetlh loD nen moj */The son of a Klingon is a man the day he can first hold a blade./ -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
In this particular case, I'd use -ghach: {qIHchuqpu'ghachmaj jaj} Many cases won't be quite so simple, however; "the day on which Hurmuq gave the necklace to chulmoQ" makes it tricky to think of a noun phrase that wouldn't be terribly ambiguous. //loghaD ________________________________________ From: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org> on behalf of Lieven <levinius@gmx.de> Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 21:03 To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org Subject: [tlhIngan Hol] This day Is there a canon precedent for a phrase like "The day on which xy happened"? Like in "remember the day we first met". {maqIHbogh jaj} sounds wrong. The only thing that came to my mind was from the Drinking song, but I think that one is not considered a best example, is it? {jaj qeylIS molor mIgh Hoghchu'qu'} "The day on which Khaless" killed evil Molor. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka Quvar valer 'utlh Grammarian of the KLI http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher www.klingonwiki.net/En/DrinkingSong _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
Lieven asks:
Is there a canon precedent for a phrase like "The day on which xy happened"? Like in "remember the day we first met". {maqIHbogh jaj} sounds wrong.
The only thing that came to my mind was from the Drinking song, but I think that one is not considered a best example, is it? {jaj qeylIS molor mIgh Hoghchu'qu'} "The day on which Khaless" killed evil Molor.
I don't think so. I did find three other unsatisfactory examples: wa' jaj 'etlh 'uchchoHlaH tlhIngan puqloD; jajvetlh loD nen moj The son of a Klingon is a man the day he can first hold a blade. TKW poH tuj bI'reS nungbogh wa' jaj qeylIS DIS chorghvatlh loSmaH jav qaStaHvIS. [ In the days [sic] that follow the summer solstice in the Year of Kahless 846. ('U'-MTK) chu'DI' maS 'ej qaStaHvIS ram nuHmeyDaj may'luchDaj nIv je yIr qeylIS On the night of the new moon Kahless gathered his weapons, And his finest suit of armor. (PB) -- Voragh
On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 3:03 PM, Lieven <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
{maqIHbogh jaj} sounds wrong.
I think it sounds as wrong as {jIHtaHbogh naDev vISovbe'} and {DaH naDev jIHtaHbogh meq Saja'}. The first phrase is in TKD; the second is in the paq'batlh. If I encountered {maqIHbogh jaj} without warning, I'd definitely notice it as unusual, but I don't think I would have a problem understanding it. The only "canon precedent" I know of is the one already noted from TKW. -- ghunchu'wI'
The trouble with {maqIHbogh jaj} is that the relative clause has no head. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name From: Alan Anderson Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 6:28 PM To: Klingon language email discussion forum Subject: Re: [tlhIngan Hol] This day On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 3:03 PM, Lieven <levinius@gmx.de> wrote: {maqIHbogh jaj} sounds wrong. I think it sounds as wrong as {jIHtaHbogh naDev vISovbe'} and {DaH naDev jIHtaHbogh meq Saja'}. The first phrase is in TKD; the second is in the paq'batlh. If I encountered {maqIHbogh jaj} without warning, I'd definitely notice it as unusual, but I don't think I would have a problem understanding it. The only "canon precedent" I know of is the one already noted from TKW. -- ghunchu'wI'
On Wed, May 24, 2017 at 9:21 PM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
The trouble with {maqIHbogh jaj} is that the relative clause has no head.
Or that its head is neither the object or the subject of the clause, which is something Marc Okrand said he couldn't make work. I think it works, after a fashion, but it "doesn't sound right" to most people -- so it probably isn't. -- ghunchu'wI'
Regarding all the problems and lack of examples, I think the best way is to follow the scheme of the one example we have: wa' jaj 'etlh 'uchchoHlaH tlhIngan puqloD; jajvetlh loD nen moj. (TKW) ben law' maqIHpu'. jajvetlh Daqaw'a'? "We first met many years ago. Do you remember that day?" = "Do your remember the day we first met?" -- Lieven L. Litaer aka Quvar valer 'utlh Grammarian of the KLI http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher http://www.klingonwiki.net
Note that it should be «qIHchuq», unless the two of you met some other person: http://klingonska.org/canon/1998-12-holqed-07-4.txt //loghaD ________________________________________ From: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org> on behalf of Lieven <levinius@gmx.de> Sent: Friday, May 26, 2017 9:03:39 AM To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org Subject: Re: [tlhIngan Hol] This day Regarding all the problems and lack of examples, I think the best way is to follow the scheme of the one example we have: wa' jaj 'etlh 'uchchoHlaH tlhIngan puqloD; jajvetlh loD nen moj. (TKW) ben law' maqIHpu'. jajvetlh Daqaw'a'? "We first met many years ago. Do you remember that day?" = "Do your remember the day we first met?" -- Lieven L. Litaer aka Quvar valer 'utlh Grammarian of the KLI http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher http://www.klingonwiki.net _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
Am 26.05.2017 um 12:01 schrieb Felix Malmenbeck:
Note that it should be «qIHchuq», unless the two of you met some other person:
Yes, I remembered that after I had sent my message :-) I wrote it correctly in the summary I wrote in the Klingon wiki. Thanks for the reminder anyway. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka Quvar valer 'utlh Grammarian of the KLI http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/ThatDay
participants (5)
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Alan Anderson -
Felix Malmenbeck -
Lieven -
Steven Boozer -
SuStel