I'll write how I'm understanding this, and correct me if I'm wrong. I know that the cat has drunk the milk, however the bird insists that it still sees it. I want to say to the bird: "I know that the cat has drunk the milk, so how do you see it ?". So I write: {nIm Soppu' vIghro' 'e' vISov, chay' vaj nImvam Dalegh ?} At this sentence, the {chay' vaj} "seems" strange, since the english goes "how in that case..", while one would expect to listen "in that case how..". But I think, that writing {chay' vaj..} *is* the correct choice, and that the only "problem" is that the direct english translation sounds strange. Am I right ? ~ khhkkh
On 7/9/2019 11:13 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
I'll write how I'm understanding this, and correct me if I'm wrong.
I know that the cat has drunk the milk, however the bird insists that it still sees it.
I want to say to the bird: "I know that the cat has drunk the milk, so how do you see it ?".
So I write:
{nIm Soppu' vIghro' 'e' vISov, chay' vaj nImvam Dalegh ?}
At this sentence, the {chay' vaj} "seems" strange, since the english goes "how in that case..", while one would expect to listen "in that case how..".
But I think, that writing {chay' vaj..} *is* the correct choice, and that the only "problem" is that the direct english translation sounds strange.
Am I right ?
*vaj* is an adverbial, and *chay'* is a question word that acts as an adverbial. I don't see that there is any obvious preferred order, going strictly by the given rules. I'm not aware of any canon combining *vaj* with another adverbial or question word, so we don't have any data to go by. The best we can do is speculate. The English can go either way: /therefore in that case/ or /in that case therefore./ We can't go by the "feel" of the English when deciding about the Klingon. Ultimately do whichever you feel is best. There is no definitive answer. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
On 7/9/2019 11:27 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
SuStel:
chay' is a question word that acts as an adverbial.
Interesting. I hadn't thought of that. I thought {chay'} was only a question word.
Are there any other question words, which act as adverbials ?
When I say "acts as an adverbial," I don't mean that TKD tells us to treat those words as adverbials; I mean the words' meanings are adverbial in nature. *chay'* /how?/ is asking the manner in which something is done. That's adverbial. *qatlh*/why?/ is asking the reason something is done; that's adverbial. *ghorgh*/when?/ is asking the time something is done; that's adverbial — although in Klingon maybe it's considered a time element. Federation linguists classified *chay', ghorgh, qatlh, nuq, nuqDaq, 'Iv,* and *'ar* as question words; Klingon linguists classify them with *chuvmey,* along with all the adverbials, conjunctions, exclamations, and so on. The classification of some words into question words shouldn't make you think they are completely separate from other classes of words, or that they all work the same way. Barring Okrandian intervention, the best we can do is observe the canon and formulate the rules they seem to follow. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
And like adverbials, they “occur at the beginning of the sentence” (TKD 69): Three other question words likewise occur at the beginning of the sentence. The other two being {ghorgh} “when?” and {qatlh} “why?” – as SuStel mentions below. Where exactly “at the beginning” is the topic of this thread. -- Voragh From: SuStel On 7/9/2019 11:27 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote: SuStel:
chay' is a question word that acts as an adverbial.
Interesting. I hadn't thought of that. I thought {chay'} was only a question word. Are there any other question words, which act as adverbials ? When I say "acts as an adverbial," I don't mean that TKD tells us to treat those words as adverbials; I mean the words' meanings are adverbial in nature. chay' how? is asking the manner in which something is done. That's adverbial. qatlh why? is asking the reason something is done; that's adverbial. ghorgh when? is asking the time something is done; that's adverbial — although in Klingon maybe it's considered a time element. Federation linguists classified chay', ghorgh, qatlh, nuq, nuqDaq, 'Iv, and 'ar as question words; Klingon linguists classify them with chuvmey, along with all the adverbials, conjunctions, exclamations, and so on. The classification of some words into question words shouldn't make you think they are completely separate from other classes of words, or that they all work the same way. Barring Okrandian intervention, the best we can do is observe the canon and formulate the rules they seem to follow.
participants (3)
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mayqel qunen'oS -
Steven Boozer -
SuStel