wa' Hu', ghob'etlh mu' vIHaD.. luHDu' lelmeH nuH 'oH; vaj, chay' jIHvaD qay' mu'vam ? qay'choH mu'vam, muSIghmo': jIQongchoHDI', 'ej jInajchoHDI', wa' nuv vIlegh. 'ej nuvvamvo', luHDu' lulellu'.. mu' ghob'etlh vImuS. ~ nI'ghma
On 2/13/2018 5:37 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
wa' Hu', ghob'etlh mu' vIHaD..
luHDu' lelmeH nuH 'oH; vaj, chay' jIHvaD qay' mu'vam ?
qay'choH mu'vam, muSIghmo': jIQongchoHDI', 'ej jInajchoHDI', wa' nuv vIlegh. 'ej nuvvamvo', luHDu' lulellu'..
mu' ghob'etlh vImuS.
mu'Heyvam mung yIngu'; vIghovbe'. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
A little bird told me, that {ghob'etlh} is a word spoken on KCD. Because it has only been spoken (according to the little bird), its exact spelling is unknown. Perhaps it is Qob'etlh, perhaps it is ghab'etlh. ~ nI'ghma
Indeed. Here is an attempt to transcribe the language note for *ghob'etlh* (via http://klingonska.org/canon/1996-04-kcd.txt ): "A gutting device used in balance with a shield when practicing the Klingon warrior fighting style of *qIjatlh (or *qIjat). One of three weapons traditionally displayed on the {nuH bey'}." To see what it looks like, go here: https://hol.kag.org/page/KLL/WEAPON.TXT.html?o=DevwIW005-EN ... and click on {nuH bey'}. It's the small weapon at the top of the display. Other words from Star Trek: Klingon that we don't quite know the spellings of include the dessert dish *vellka* and the *jebQa'* robes. //loghaD ________________________________ From: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org> on behalf of mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 15:08 To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org Subject: Re: [tlhIngan Hol] ghob'etlh A little bird told me, that {ghob'etlh} is a word spoken on KCD. Because it has only been spoken (according to the little bird), its exact spelling is unknown. Perhaps it is Qob'etlh, perhaps it is ghab'etlh. ~ nI'ghma
If it is a gutting blade, one might have expected *ghab'etlh, derived from ghab meat from midsection of animal: (KGT 87): Large animals are usually chopped into pieces, sometimes with attention paid to which piece is which... sometimes not (the ghab, for example, is just a chunk of the midsection of an animal, including any organs that may have remained attached after the carving). (KGT 27): The word ghab, however, which refers to any chunk of the midsection of an animal, has slightly varying meanings depending on region. In most of the empire, including the First City, ghab is rather inclusive: basically, whatever was chopped off the animal as a single piece, with or without bones or internal organs. However most people seem to hear ghob (presumably rhyming with English probe) and not ghab (which would rhymes with gob, blob): (qa'vaj, 1/08): It's definitely ghob by pronunciation. It sounds like HHob'ek. (SuStel, 4/09/2012): I just happened to be replaying it this weekend, and clicked on the weapon in question. The woman speaking the information doesn't have perfect pronunciation, but it sounds very much like Qob 'etlh. TREK TRIVIA: The Andorians use an analogous weapon called an ushaan-tor (originally an ice-miner's tool with a convex, or curved-outward, serrated blade) in the Ushaan, a traditional Andorian duel-to-the-death, which was seen in ENT "United". This and the earlier irrealis thread remind me of something Worf said to Iyaaran Ambassador Byleth, who had accused Worf of lying during a poker game in TNG "Liaisons": "If you were not an ambassador I would disembowel you right now!" -- Voragh Ca'Non Master of the Klingons From: Felix Malmenbeck Indeed. Here is an attempt to transcribe the language note for *ghob'etlh* (via http://klingonska.org/canon/1996-04-kcd.txt ): "A gutting device used in balance with a shield when practicing the Klingon warrior fighting style of *qIjatlh (or *qIjat). One of three weapons traditionally displayed on the {nuH bey'}." To see what it looks like, go here: https://hol.kag.org/page/KLL/WEAPON.TXT.html?o=DevwIW005-EN ... and click on {nuH bey'}. It's the small weapon at the top of the display. //loghaD ________________________________ From: mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com<mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com>> A little bird told me, that {ghob'etlh} is a word spoken on KCD. Because it has only been spoken (according to the little bird), its exact spelling is unknown. Perhaps it is Qob'etlh, perhaps it is ghab'etlh. ~ nI'ghma
chaq, *extended canon* mu' vIlo'qangmo', mubIj qeylIS; 'ej mubIjmo' qeylIS, wa'Hu' ram jIQongtaHvIS 'ej jInajtaHvIS, mughIjqu' mIllogh'e' vIbejbogh.. hmm.. ~ nI'ghma
'ej chaq, *extended canon* mu' vIlo'ta'mo', jIHeghDI', Suto'vo'qorvo' mughIm qeylIS.. chaq not yo' qIj vImuvlaH, 'ej wa' meqmo' neH Sanvam vISIQ.. *extended canon* mu' vIlo'ta'mo' ! ~ nI'ghma
On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:38 PM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
'ej chaq, *extended canon* mu' vIlo'ta'mo', jIHeghDI', Suto'vo'qorvo' mughIm qeylIS..
chaq not yo' qIj vImuvlaH, 'ej wa' meqmo' neH Sanvam vISIQ.. *extended canon* mu' vIlo'ta'mo' !
*chaq teH... 'a vIHon.* Many of the entries that boQwI' lists as "extended canon" are names of weapons, devices, animals, plants, foods, and so on. In other words, they're basically just transliterations of the names of specific aspects of Klingon culture which were already invented for a TV episode or novel. Using an unofficial transliteration of a name may cause a small argument, but it's probably not going to keep you out of Sto-Vo-Kor. People used *QISmaS* "Christmas" for ages before Maltz signed off on it as an official transliteration of the holiday; I'm not sure using *ghIlo'meH* for "glommer" is a more significant sin. (It does help if you explain what a "glommer" is, just in case some people are not totally familiar with esoteric Klingon lore.) Extended canon that's *not* just a transliteration should probably be avoided until further notice.
I'm not sure using ghIlo'meH for "glommer" is a more significant sin. (It does help if you explain what a "glommer" is,
just in case some people are not totally familiar with esoteric Klingon lore.)
The word *ghIlo'meH* (has it been canonized?) has rather an interesting origin. As far as I can tell, it began its journey in the book Star Trek: Forged in Fire, where the author decided to "klingonize" the word "glommer" as *glo'meH* (which violates ordinary syllable structure in exactly the same way that "glommer" does). Then *glo'meH* was used as an English word in How to Speak Klingon, which was then properly klingonized as *ghIlo'meH*. It's essentially come about through a strange game of Telephone / Chinese Whispers ... but then again, I suppose that's true of much of language in general. //loghaD ________________________________ From: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org> on behalf of nIqolay Q <niqolay0@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2018 20:21 To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org Subject: Re: [tlhIngan Hol] ghob'etlh On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:38 PM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com<mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com>> wrote: 'ej chaq, *extended canon* mu' vIlo'ta'mo', jIHeghDI', Suto'vo'qorvo' mughIm qeylIS.. chaq not yo' qIj vImuvlaH, 'ej wa' meqmo' neH Sanvam vISIQ.. *extended canon* mu' vIlo'ta'mo' ! ?chaq teH... 'a vIHon. Many of the entries that boQwI' lists as "extended canon" are names of weapons, devices, animals, plants, foods, and so on. In other words, they're basically just transliterations of the names of specific aspects of Klingon culture which were already invented for a TV episode or novel. Using an unofficial transliteration of a name may cause a small argument, but it's probably not going to keep you out of Sto-Vo-Kor. People used QISmaS "Christmas" for ages before Maltz signed off on it as an official transliteration of the holiday; I'm not sure using ghIlo'meH for "glommer" is a more significant sin. (It does help if you explain what a "glommer" is, just in case some people are not totally familiar with esoteric Klingon lore.) Extended canon that's not just a transliteration should probably be avoided until further notice.
On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 9:08 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
A little bird told me, that {ghob'etlh} is a word spoken on KCD.
Because it has only been spoken (according to the little bird), its exact spelling is unknown. Perhaps it is Qob'etlh, perhaps it is ghab'etlh.
jatlh je bo'Deghvam mach <mu'vam Dalo'DI' yIHoj>. If you're going to use words from extended canon, or words from canon sources with uncertain spellings, it can be helpful to include a footnote explaining what you're getting at, since not everybody is going to know those words.
participants (5)
-
Felix Malmenbeck -
mayqel qunenoS -
nIqolay Q -
Steven Boozer -
SuStel