SuStel:
There *are* some answers that would fit, like, say, *pawta' DIvI' Duj.*
yes, indeed; that's why I used two variants of the question: {pawta' nuq Duj} in case the answer would be {pawta' DIvI' Duj}, and {paw'ta' Duj nuq} in case the answer would be {pawta' Duj qIj}. anyway, I understand now. thanks ! qunnoH jan puqloD ghoghwIj HablI'vo' vIngeHta' On 14 Dec 2016 7:13 pm, "Steven Boozer" <sboozer@uchicago.edu> wrote:
SuStel is using the method for translating “which/what is X?” that Okrand introduced on the old msn.onstage.startrek.expert.okrand BBS. FYI here is the relevant part of his post (unformatted):
************************************************************************
From: MarcOkrand <…>
Newsgroups: msn.onstage.startrek.expert.okrand
Date: December 12, 1996
Subject: What do you think?
[. . . .]
(2) You suggested translating "What is your favorite month?" as:
*jarlIj qaq nuq*?
This one's a little easier to deal with. Your sentence literally means
"What is your preferable month?" The basic syntax is correct. Question
words (in this case, *nuq* "what?") function the same way pronouns do in
questions with "to be" in the English translations. Thus, the question
*yIH nuq*? "What is a tribble?" is exactly parallel the statement *yIH 'oH*
"It is a tribble" (where * yIH *is "tribble" and *'oH *is "it"). The answer to the question *yIH nuq*? ("What is a tribble?") would presumably be a
definition or description of a tribble. This being the case, then, the
answer to the question * jarlIj qaq nuq*? ("What is your preferable month?") would presumably be a definition of "your favorite month." But this is not what you want to find out by asking your question. What you really mean to ask is something like "Of all the months, which one do you prefer?"
The first word in your sentence, *jarlIj*, means "your month" (*jar *"month," *-lIj *"your"). But given that what you're really asking is "Which month do you prefer?" it's not really "your month" at all. The "you" should go with the verb, not with "month."
Which brings us to the verb. You use *qaq*, "be preferable," adjectivally
(*jarlIj qaq *is "your preferable month"). I think what you mean is better
expressed by using the verb *maS *"prefer" with "you" as the subject: *jar*
*DamaS* "you prefer the month." If you want to highlight the notion of
"most prefer," you can use the emphatic suffix -*qu'*: *jar DamaSqu'* "you
very much prefer the month." (In this case, since "prefer" involves
making a choice, the one chosen is automatically the one that is "most"
preferred.)
So what about the "what" (or "which") of your original question
("What/which is your favorite month?")? When asking someone a question of
this type, you are really asking him or her to make a choice. So just be
a Klingon and order them to do so: "Identify the month that you very much prefer!":
* jar DamaSqu'bogh yIngu' *
*DamaSqu'bogh *"that you very much prefer" (*DamaSqu' *"you very much prefer
it" plus -*bogh *"which," the relative-clause marker) modifies *jar * "month"
and the whole phrase *jar DamaSqu'bogh *"the month that you very much
prefer" is the object of the verb *ngu'* ("identify"), which is preceded by the imperative prefix *yI*- ("do something to it!").
Given that there's an awful lot about Klingon grammar that's not yet known, you did a good job coming up with the translations you came up with. I hope my explanations and clarifications make sense.
************************************************************************
*On Behalf Of *SuStel *Sent:* Wednesday, December 14, 2016 10:47 AM
On 12/14/2016 11:17 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
I'm just asking in order to make sure I understand this correctly.
lets say I want to ask "which ship arrived ?". both {paw'ta' Duj nuq} and {paw'ta' nuq Duj} are wrong, right ?
*paw,* not *paw'* (unless the arrival was very rough!).
*nuq* goes into the place of the answer. If the answer isn't the same sentence with a substitution for *nuq,* then the question is not formed correctly.
If the answer to the question is, for instance, that the *Enterprise* arrived, then the answer is *pawta' 'entepray'.* But this isn't in the same form that you asked it, because it doesn't include the word *Duj.* So the entire method of asking the question is doubtful.
There *are* some answers that would fit, like, say, *pawta' DIvI' Duj.* But not every answer will fit, so you may not be able to ask questions this way.
In any case, we've never seen Okrand use *nuq* or *'Iv* in a noun-noun construction like this, so whether or not this is allowed is unknown.
The most common thing to do is turn it into a command to identify: *paw'ta'bogh Duj yIngu'** identify the ship that has arrived!* If you're not asking for a name, you might get more specific, like *pawta'bogh Duj Sar yIngu'* *identify the type of ship that has arrived!*
--
SuStel
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