I can't understand what it is I'm supposed to understand from this thread. But before I write what it is I don't understand, here's a silly question as a warm up.. qajatlhpu' HIqaghQo' I told you not to interrupt me Is this correct? Something tells me that I was (seriously) misunderstanding {jatlh} all those years. (And now the main body of the message follows) De'vID:
it would be impossible to use the prefix trick on a sentence like "I speak Klingon to him" (because {vI-} already indicates the direct object, {tlhIngan Hol} "Klingon", and thus cannot indicate the indirect object, {ghaH} "him"). But {[ghaH] lujang} "they answer him" is fine in the paq'batlh, because the only possible object in context is Molor.
If the point of this thread is that the prefix trick *can* be applied to the third person as well, then -if the context is clear- why couldn't we write {tlhIngan Hol vIjatlh}? As far as the {ghaH lujang} goes, paq'batlh aside, since the only object {jang} can take is a/the person hearing the reply, why was this clarification necessary to start with? De'vID:
The verb {jatlh} can also be used when giving direct quotations
Didn't we know that already? Why did 'oqranD need to say this again? Am I missIng something here? De'vID:
Also: <The verb {jatlh} can also be used when giving direct quotations... If the speaker is first or second person, the pronominal prefix indicating "no object" is used>. Again, this applies to the third person as well. {tlhIngan Hol lujatlh} means "they speak Klingon", whereas {tlhIngan Hol jatlh [chaH]} means "they say, 'Klingon language'". In the singular case, {tlhIngan Hol jatlh [ghaH]}, the prefix does not distinguish between "she speaks Klingon" and "she says, 'Klingon language'" (but normally it would be understood as the first).
In the relevant msn message, there's the sentence: tlhIngan Hol qajatlh "I speak Klingon to you" So, and since the prefix trick has been extended to the third person as well, why can't the {tlhIngan Hol lujatlh} mean too "the speak Klingon to him"? De'vID:
whereas {tlhIngan Hol jatlh [chaH]} means "they say, 'Klingon language'
Can't this mean too "the speak Klingon to them"? De'vID:
In the singular case, {tlhIngan Hol jatlh [ghaH]}, the prefix does not distinguish between "she speaks Klingon" and "she says, 'Klingon language'" (but normally it would be understood as the first).
Again, can't this mean too "she speaks klingon to them"? De'vID:
Going back through my discussions with Dr. Okrand, he wrote that {loDnI'Daj vavDaj je} was fine as the object of {ja' qeylIS}
Didn't we know that already from the tkd's {qaja'pu' HIqaghQo'}? I know that these may be truly ridiculous things to wonder, but apart the clarification that the prefix trick can be extended for the third person as well, I can't understand if there's something new I need to notice/understand in all this too. -- Dana'an https://sacredtextsinklingon.wordpress.com/ Ζεὺς ἦν, Ζεὺς ἐστίν, Ζεὺς ἔσσεται· ὦ μεγάλε Ζεῦ