From: "ghunchu'wI' 'utlh" <qunchuy@alcaco.net> On Oct 13, 2017, at 4:23 PM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name <mailto:sustel@trimboli.name>> wrote: On 10/13/2017 2:55 PM, ghunchu'wI' 'utlh wrote: On Oct 13, 2017, at 12:26 PM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name <mailto:sustel@trimboli.name>> wrote: I wouldn’t make that assumption. If you must quote a cat, say:*ghugh vIghro’; jatlh ‘Imyagh*. I think that contradicts the “not speech” part of {ghugh}’s definition. It makes perfect sense in my mind to treat {ghugh} as similar to {jatlh}. If it's not speech, then it's not a verb of saying. What is your definition of “verb of saying”, and who called {ghugh} one? I should have "verb of speech," because that's what Okrand called it in his interview with Will Martin in /HolQeD/ 7:4. His first statement is "Verbs of speech are 'say' verbs, like *jatlh* and *ja'.*" Then he says that, unlike the English tendency to attach any old verb to a quotation, Klingon doesn't do that: In English, we say, "Give me some water," he said. "Give me some water," he pleaded. "Give me some water," he yelled. [...] I think that's an English thing to do. That's not a Klingon thing to do. In Klingon, you *jatlh* and you *ja'.* That's about it. The guard asked the prisoner a question. He replied. He said, "[gestures a quotation he never quite made]" He later admits that there may be other verbs of speech, but that they're few. "The way I see I see the verbs of speech, there may be more than just *ja'* and *jatlh,* but there is only a small number of words, unlike English." And the bulk of this section of the article is Okrand explaining to Martin that verbs of speech in the *'e'*-less sentence-as-object construction are used to report direct quotations. So does that mean *ghugh* might also be a verb of speech? Yeeeesssss, if you ignore that *ghugh* is explicitly not speech. If you consider "verbs of quotation" to be a better term to describe them, you still need to demonstrate that *ghugh* is not among all the other words that Okrand explicitly blocked from being verbs of speech, mostly giving their English translations: *tlhob, qoy', jach, chel, jang,* and that it is one of the few that Okrand wasn't even sure existed. So all of that is a lot of guesswork and looking at things sideways to get to *ghugh* being a verb of speech, which is why I said "I wouldn't make that assumption" and not "You can't do that." Hey, it DOES sound like *ghugh* could be the "verb of animal noises" equivalent to "verbs of speech," but we don't KNOW that. As for who called *ghugh* a verb of speech: loghaD did, just not with that term: I would assume that this word can be used similarly to jatlh: ghugh vIghro' 'Imyagh. 'Imyagh, ghugh vIghro'. "The v'gro goes 'Imyagh." He's talking about verbs of speech. He assumed; I said I wouldn't make that assumption.