Hi Michael, I am not this lists admin, but I want to answer anyway for several reasons; I was part of the discussion, one of the experts you talk about, and I've been on this list for almost twenty years now. And after all, I still admire how quickly you learned Klingon. I still remember when we first met and had interesting conversations, even off list. First of all, please don't be discouraged so quickly. After all, learning Klingon should be fun and if you throw it away, it will not only be our time that is lost, it's yours as well. Don't end up as "the one who left the list angrily" About your comments, I'll answer shortly, because you are a bit wrong with some of them. (my mail software lost the quotes marks, so I'll use quotes myself) You ask "Because I will ask, what beginner ? The zero beginners who regularly ..." Did you know that there are about 290 members on this mailing list? Not all learners are writting. It has always been a fact that there are so called lurkers who learn just by watching what happens. I know many klingonists who NEVER write a thing here. You write: 1. When “experts” utilize punctuation, but nevertheless write long and complex sentences do you tell them “back off, you are confusing beginners ?” No, we don't, because the list is made not ONLY for beginners. People can write about what they want, in Klingon. (pointing at te FAQ again). But I would also tell experts to use punctiuation, because any text without looks horrible, even for experts. I don't want to guess where a sentence ends, also not in english. You write:
When “experts” transliterate, do you tell them “don’t do it” ?
Yes, we do! It's in the list's FAQ. You write:
Because here, you function as a closely-knit group of individuals,
Well, actually, those closely-knit members usually do follow those rules. There is one reason to explain why these people are so strict on their rules. It goes back to a ime when we did not have as many canon examples as today. These "rules" or "conventions" or whatever you call them were set up to avoid that people start to use their own Klingon. Back then, students - and also experts - tried to stick words and nouns together like they wanted, creating absolute no-gos. They would stick noun suffixes to verbs, just because they thought it makes sense. That's why we are so strict on following the rules. That's why SuStel keeps saying "we just don't know if xyz is correct just because you think it is.". We don't want to stop students from leraning Klingon, but there has to be some guidance. That's what this list is for, and that's the goal of the KLI. ------------ I'll let others answer more. I just want to tell you that I will not be happy when you leave the list. You made it alive again, and asked very interesting quetions from a differetn point of view. If you leave the list, I hope you keep learning and using Klingon, so we can meet at other places. rIn. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka Quvar valer 'utlh Grammarian of the KLI http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher