In spite of my advocacy of {chu'wI'} earlier, I really like the sound of {taghwI'} vs. {taHwI'}. It's also a good example of proper enunciation. --Voragh From: Felix Malmenbeck <taghwI' taHwI' je> - a beginner and an endurer //loghaD ________________________________ From: Alan Anderson <qunchuy@alcaco.net<mailto:qunchuy@alcaco.net>> I am trying to find a pair of relatively simple words that I can use to label people as the equivalent of rookies (it's their first time experiencing something) or veterans (they've been through it before). I like {chu'wI'} "newcomer", but I can't decide what to use as its counterpart. Have any of you ever needed this kind of distinction, and if so, did you come up with anything satisfactory? -- ghunchu'wI'