On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 10:56 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
SuStel:
connotes negative quality (connotes disparagement, seldom used)
What is the difference between "connotes negative quality" and "connotes disparagement" ? I googled disparagement, (because I didn't know its meaning), and I got the synonyms of "devaluation, debasement, derogation".
The way I understand the "connotes negative quality" and "connotes disparagement", with regards to the matter we are discussing is:
If I want to say that the qagh is as dead as a stone (which is a negative quality) then I use {A Q *puS* B Q *puS}. *But if I want to say that the forehead of someone's mother is smooth as a peach, and I want the phrase to have the maximum insulting effect, then I will use {A Q *puS* B Q *rap}. *And maybe, in the qagh example, if I want to insult the chef who ccoked it, I will use again {A Q *puS* B Q *rap} *instead of the {A Q *puS* B Q *puS*} *. *Or is it that the "disparagement" concerns only the occupant of slot A, and not those in direct relation to him as well ?
I think you might be overthinking this. Looking back at the original source for the constructions ( http://klingonska.org/canon/2004-03-holqed-13-1.txt ), it seems that the primary difference is that {A Q puS B Q puS} puts more emphasis on the fact that Q is a bad quality to have, whereas in {A Q puS B Q rap} it's a more general sense of negativity about the situation, rather than anything specifically negative about Q itself. If I had to think of some examples: {tlhIngan yoH puS tera'ngan yoH rap} suggests that the speaker thinks it's a bad thing that the Klingon is as brave as the Terran. Perhaps they think Klingons should always be braver than Terrans, and think this particular Klingon is a disappointment. {tlhIngan yoH puS tera'ngan yoH puS} makes less sense, though, since being brave isn't a negative quality. To say someone's mother's forehead is as smooth as a peach, I think either construction would work. Since smoothness is a bad thing when applied to someone's forehead, the {puS/puS} construction makes sense. Likewise, since deadness is a bad thing when applied to gagh, I think either the {puS/rap} or the {puS/puS} construction would work. I don't think either one necessarily singles out the chef, though. They both mean roughly the same thing: "my gagh is dead as a rock, and that's bad".
As far as the intentional ungrammaticality of the law' puS construction, as it is described in kgt is concerned.. Is someone allowed to make use of it regularly, or is it only to be used under special circumstances ?
It's a form of wordplay, which means it's appropriate whenever wordplay is appropriate. You probably shouldn't do it too often, or when there's the opportunity for confusion, or at a very formal occasion, or in a situation where beginners are learning.