[tlhIngan Hol] thoughts on the perfective {-pu'}

De'vID de.vid.jonpin at gmail.com
Wed Apr 6 04:00:00 PDT 2022

On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 at 21:36, SuStel <sustel at trimboli.name> wrote:

> On 4/5/2022 2:52 PM, Iikka Hauhio wrote:
> I consider that insulting. I never misrepresent you intentionally.
> You do it EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. I say X. You tell me I've said X-squared. I
> say I didn't say X-squared, I said X. You say X-squared is just X times
> itself, so how is that any different than X-squared? I say because X means
> one thing and X-squared means another. You say that X-squared is just X
> times itself, and if I didn't mean X-squared, why didn't I say so, and why
> am I getting angry at you when you're just trying to have a nice discussion?
> I'm tired of this conversation.
> I might have misunderstood what you have said.
> I don't think you misunderstood me. I think you understood me just fine,
> disagreed with me, and tried to say my opinion was wrong because you said
> so. Up to that point, I'm fine — you're entitled to your opinion. I explain
> why I find your opinion unconvincing — i.e., you haven't provided any
> evidence.
I'll make the observation that you (Iikka) have the tendency to seemingly
ignore what the other person says, repeat what they wrote back to them in a
way that ignores their main point, and then claim that you agree with them.
But this comes across essentially as declaring that you're right, which
might be irritating to many people.

For example, consider what you wrote to SuStel: "I think you too see how it
could have a meaning, as you have multiple times described what it would
mean, and I agree with your analysis."

SuStel has described multiple times why the meaning of {roppu'} would be
"weird", i.e., it indicates the completion of an action on a non-action.
Instead of acknowledging or addressing this, you've simply declared that it
can be done, and then claimed that you agree with him. Effectively, this is
saying that he agrees with you, which I can see why would be infuriating.
Very clearly, if you did agree with his analysis, you'd recognise that
{roppu'} doesn't make sense; so either you actually disagree with his
analysis, or you don't fully understand it.

If I may make a suggestion, instead of "You said X, and I agree with you"
(where the other person might not feel that X accurately represents what
they said), it might be more conducive to a productive conversation to
phrase it like, "I think you said X; is that right, and if not, what am I

(Or, you know, challenge the other person to a {vItHay'}, as is the Klingon

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