[tlhIngan Hol] 'eSpanya' QISmaS (Beginner's text and questions)

SuStel sustel at trimboli.name
Tue Nov 23 10:15:03 PST 2021

On 11/22/2021 11:44 AM, luis.chaparro at web.de wrote:
> tugh qaS QISmaS. jar wa'maH cha' rav jaj javDIch 'aqroS jaj chorghDIch 'eSpanya''e' motlh juH lu'IHqu'choHmoHlu'.

I don't understand what *'eSpanya'* is supposed to be doing here. Do you 
want *'eSpanya'Daq*/in Spain/?

If *'IH* is /be beautiful,/ then *'IHqu'* would be something like /be 
incredibly gorgeous./ Is this perhaps an exaggeration? I've noticed that 
people seem to always put *-qu'* on *'IH* as if it were needed to mean 
/beautiful./ It isn't.

>   QISmaS Sor DIghaj, 'ach 'eSpanya' lurDech bIHbe'. *Bethlehem* velqa'mey nu' 'oH lurDechmaj'e'. pIj vIqraqna' bIH 'ej tInqu'. velqa'vam nu' ghaj je 'op DIvI', malja', chIrgh je 'ej SuchlaH nuvpu'.
> jaj cha'maH loSDIch, jaj wejmaH wa'DIch je nItebHa' Sop qorDu'mey, 'eybogh 'eSpanya' Soj vItlh luSop. jaj wejmaH wa'DIch pagh rep wa'maH cha' ghIrep naH DISop je, baS 'In DIQoy'taHvIS.
> nob Hevba' puqpu'ma', 'ach qembe' *Santa Claus*. qem wej ta' chul. wa' ta' wIv Hoch puq. jar wa' jaj vaghDIch Hoch vengDaq puqpu'vaD boghoy Dun tu'lu'. qaStaHvIS jajvetlh ram, QongtaHvIS puqpu', nob qem ta'pu'.
> As always, I would appreciate any help / correction in order to improve my Klingon. I also have some questions:
> 1. I've discussed in another thread the difference between *'eSpanya' QISmaS* and *'eSpanya'ngan QISmaS*. If I've understood it well, I think I could use both here with a similar meaning, but I've chosen *'eSpanya' QISmaS* because I wanted to present the traditions in the context of the country's culture, rather than focusing on the people. Was it right?

Think of *'eSpanya' QISmaS* as /Spanish Christmas/ and *'eSpanya'ngan 
QISmaS* as /Spaniards' Christmas./ I think you have chosen correctly.

> 2. I wanted to use *'eSpanya''e'* as topic, but then I couldn't decide where I should place it. It's a noun with a Type 5 suffix. Time expressions come first. So I placed it after the time expression. However, my tendency was to say it at the beginning, before the time expression. Would that be right / possible?

I strongly recommend against using a topic noun in this way. The rules 
suggest it should work, but it has never been done on a basic sentence 
in the way you're doing it. Some people do this, and some even recommend 
it, but you will inevitably run into the problem that *-'e'* does not 
successfully replace whatever English or Spanish preposition that you're 
trying to replicate. *-'e'* as topic is good for sentence fragments and 
or course copulas, but not really for OVS sentences.

By the book, time expressions come before other things. Exactly what 
that covers is unclear, but generally you should do it. Your tendency is 
being informed by your native language, which works differently than 
Klingon. Klingon word order does not always feel natural, because none 
of us are native speakers.

> 3. In */Bethlehem/ velqa'mey nu' 'oH lurDechmaj'e'*, I've decided to use *'oH* since the idea is *As for our tradition, IT (the tradition) = miniatures of Bethlehem*, but I'm not sure about it.

Yeah, this has always been a problem. I think you've picked the right 
one, but I forget which one we've seen before. I wouldn't worry about it.

> 4. Can we use *Such* with the meaning *to visit the miniatures*? Maybe *bej* would be better?

*nuD? tIv?* We have a new word, *chotlh*/stare at, gaze at, ogle./

> 5. Am I telling dates / time correctly? I don't feel very confident with this. When should we tell time as hundreds?

Military time is used in the military, but we're told that Klingons like 
to do things in the military style. I would expect military time to be 
acceptable at any time, while other forms are only for more casual or 
intimate settings. A bunch of humans writing in Klingon on a mailing 
list? Pick whichever style you prefer.

> 6. Is it possible to say something like *jar wa' jaj vaghDIch ram* for *the night of January 5th*?

I'd accept it.

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