[tlhIngan Hol] HovHom, HovHom, yIbochchu'

[Daniel Dadap]

> On Jun 10, 2018, at 18:34, Alan Anderson <qunchuy at alcaco.net> wrote:
> 
> Comments on vocabulary and grammar only:
> 
>> On Sun, Jun 10, 2018 at 6:32 PM, Daniel Dadap <daniel at dadap.net> wrote:
>> HovHom, HovHom, yIbochchu'!
> 
> {boch} has always struck me as referring to the reflective kind of shininess. I would say {wew} "glow" instead, unless you'd be happy with another repetition of {wov} "be light, bright".
> 

Thanks, {wew} should work nicely. “Shiny” referring to reflectivity makes sense.

> Verbs of quality like {boch} and {wov} are usually not used in imperatives without the suffixes {-'egh} and {-moH}. In the interest of meter, I don't mind them being left off, but you're basically invoking poetic license in order to do it.
>  

Okay, good to know. I think we can accommodate that without breaking meter by deleting one {HovHom}:

HovHom, yIwov'eghmoHchu'

Or if I understand correctly that {wew} is not a verb of quality, just substitute {wew} for {boch} in the original line.

>> nuq Dayugh 'e' vISIvqu'.
> 
> "What you are" is not a question, so {nuq} is not appropriate. Find a way to use {-bogh} instead. For example: {Hap Dayughbogh vISIvqu'} "I very much wonder about the matter you consist of."
>  

Thanks, that works well. (I also realize I mistranslated in my English translation; I was originally working with something like 'e' vIsov vIneH.)

>> vaj ram Hoch bIwov net Sov.
> 
> {ram Hoch} is a period of time, but that's not how you used it. For "all night" you really ought to say {qaStaHvIS ram}. To make it fit the rhythm, perhaps {ram DawovmoHtaH net Sov}.
>  

Thanks for the suggestion; that works well. Could you give an example of how to use {ram Hoch} correctly?

>> taw HurghDaq lengwI' Dutlho',
> 
> {lengwI'} is the subject and needs to come last. This verse is going to need to be rearranged to make everything work together.
>  

Oops, that was sloppy and certainly unintentional. You can tell I haven’t fully internalized OVS yet.

If the following sentence {Quchqu' ghaH bIwovchu'mo'} isn’t problematic, the fix could be as simple as:

taw HurghDaq Dutlho' lengwI',
Quchqu' ghaH bIwovchu'DI'.


>> chal SuD 'ej HurghDaq SoHtaH,
> 
> You can say {SuD chal 'ej Hurgh}, but you can't use two adjectival verbs like that. You'd need to say {SuDbogh chal 'ej Hurghbogh}, or give one of the verbs a different primacy with {SuDbogh chal Hurgh} or {Hurghbogh chal SuD}.
>  

Yeah, I kind of had a feeling that wouldn’t work. The sky can just be dark without also being SuD:

HovHom, chal HurghDaq SoHtaH

>> ram bIwov 'e' not Damev,
> 
> There's a good argument for preferring the order {not 'e'} instead. (The canon counterexample has other problems that make it less compelling than it could be.)
>  

Okay, another easy fix; thanks. Do you mind spelling out the argument in better detail, for my enlightenment?

> 
> Your ability to hit the triple targets of meaning, rhyme, and meter is impressive. I almost regret breaking such good work by pointing out problems elsewhere.
> 

Thanks, and have no regrets; this is exactly the sort of feedback I need to verify the accuracy of my mental model of the language. It’s easy to put back together after it’s broken; working within the constraints of those targets is part of what makes this so much fun.

I’m doing this mostly as a self-teaching exercise, and I fully expect to make a few mistakes as I push the boundaries of my understanding. I truly appreciate the micro-lessons on imperatives involving stative verbs, not being able to use question words as general pronoun-like things, two-verb colors, and placing temporal markers before the previous topic pronoun.

> -- ghunchu'wI'
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