[tlhIngan Hol] bIje''eghchugh vaj bIHegh

[RE Andeen]

The way the reflexive (type 1) suffixes work is that they take a verb with a subject and then say that the object is the same as the subject. If you could negate only the reflexive suffix, not the verb-suffix combination, then how, exactly, is the object of the verb supposed to work, exactly? Take {je'}, for example:

jIje' – I feed (some unspecified person/animal/object). Maybe it makes me feel good to provide food for people – {jIje' 'e' vItIv}. Unspecified object.
vIje' – I feed it/them. puqpu'wI' vIje' – I feed my children. Specified object (possibly only specified by the prefix, but still specified).
jIje''egh – I feed myself. Specified reflexive object.
jIje''eghbe' – I feed (some unspecified person/animal/object) but not myself? You now have an unspecified object, with the qualification that it’s NOT reflexive. I don’t think that’s a supportable interpretation, especially when the more straightforward “I don’t feed myself” jumps out as the obvious meaning.

pagh

From: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces at lists.kli.org> on behalf of Daniel Dadap <daniel at dadap.net>
Reply-To: "tlhingan-hol at kli.org" <tlhingan-hol at kli.org>
Date: Monday, June 11, 2018 at 4:47 PM
To: "tlhingan-hol at kli.org" <tlhingan-hol at kli.org>
Subject: Re: [tlhIngan Hol] bIje''eghchugh vaj bIHegh



On Jun 11, 2018, at 18:43, RE Andeen <eric.andeen at outlook.com<mailto:eric.andeen at outlook.com>> wrote:

{bIje'be''eghchugh} sounds really clunky to my ear, though that's just my opinon. There is plenty of canon support (which I'm too lazy to look up) for {-be'} modifying not just the preceding suffix but the whole unit of meaning, so {bIje''eghbe'chugh} would most naturally be understood as "If you don't feed yourself". I keep trying to formulate an alternative meaning, where {-be'} negates only the {-'egh}, but I can't find a way to make any sense of it.



“If you don’t feed yourself (but do feed others)”, which still leaves the statement as a whole true. Put on your own mask before assisting others.

I agree that putting the be' before the 'egh sounds a bit clunky now that you point it out.



pagh

________________________________
From: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces at lists.kli.org<mailto:tlhingan-hol-bounces at lists.kli.org>> on behalf of Daniel Dadap <daniel at dadap.net<mailto:daniel at dadap.net>>
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2018 3:43 PM
To: tlhingan-hol at kli.org<mailto:tlhingan-hol at kli.org>
Subject: Re: [tlhIngan Hol] bIje''eghchugh vaj bIHegh

Oh, I left out a crucial {be'} in those three phrases. I meant {bIje''eghbe'chugh vaj bIHegh}. I guess {bIje'be''eghchugh} would be more grammatically appropriate, but it sounds less like the other phrases.

> On Jun 11, 2018, at 17:40, Daniel Dadap <daniel at dadap.net<mailto:daniel at dadap.net>> wrote:
>
> We all know that {bIjeghchugh vaj bIHegh} is something you might hear in battle, and {bIje'chugh vaj bIHegh} is something you might hear when entering a store on Qo'noS, but what about {bIje''eghchugh vaj bIHegh}? It seems like a reasonable thing a restaurant proprietor might tell you, and is also more self-evidently true than the other two.
>
> I tried doing a web search for {bIje''eghchugh vaj bIHegh}, and wasn’t able to find any existing uses of this phrase. However, Klingon text searches in Terran database systems can be a bit hit or miss. Surely others must have invented this same pun already, I would think…
>
> At the very least, it makes for an amusing demonstration of how important the {qaghwI'} is.
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