[tlhIngan Hol] qepHom grammar questions

[nIqolay Q]

On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 1:32 PM, SuStel <sustel at trimboli.name> wrote:
>
> I didn't say anything about *physically.* The target of the prefix is
> someone who receives the outcome of the action. *Sa'ang:* you receive the
> outcome of my showing, you see something; *qajatlh:* you receive the
> outcome of my speaking, you hear something. But with *muqab*, I don't
> receive the outcome of its being bad. Nothing actually happens to me.
>
Something does happen to me, though - something bad. That's what *jIHvaD
qab* ("For the purposes of me, it's bad", "It's bad for me") implies --
that whatever it is (e.g. too much Terran food) has or would have some
negative outcome for me. Similar arguments could apply to my other
examples: I receive the outcome of a building *qawmoH* by being reminded of
something. My beloved receives the outcome of* vIHoHqang* by receiving the
proof of my *parmaq*. (IMO, *qawmoH* is probably closest to the examples of
*Sa'ang* and *qajatlh*, since in all three cases the outcome is some
subjective experience on the part of the object.)

> I don't think so. I think Okrand was looking for a way to express
> "indirect object," and saw that *-vaD* often did that job, because one
> sort of beneficiary is an indirect object. So he gives it this role in TKD
> Addendum 6.8. "The indirect object may be considered the beneficiary," not
> that the beneficiary may be considered the indirect object.
>
1) How do you know this for sure? We know TKD is not 100% linguistically
precise.
2) Looking up the linguistic definition of "indirect object", it means
something like "something indirectly affected by the action of the verb",
which suggests that beneficiaries are a subset of indirect objects, not the
other way around.

In any case, this disagreement demonstrates why I wanted to ask about the
prefix trick in the first place.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.kli.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol-kli.org/attachments/20171004/ba13644f/attachment-0016.htm>