[tlhIngan Hol] {net Sov} vs {'e' Sovlu'}

[mayqel qunenoS]

voragh:
> However, the {*'e' -lu'*} pattern can indeed be used with verbs
> other than {*‘aq*}.

This is new to me. I can't understand why on these examples the {'e' -lu'}
pattern is used, but I do remember that on numerous occasions on this list,
we have said (or I have been told) that it is not permissible.

Do the examples that you posted, mean that we can freely use {'e' -lu'} ?

As far as the {-lu' net} is concerned, I see no problem with it since it
doesn't contradict any rule.

~ nI'ghma

On Nov 30, 2017 10:00 PM, "Steven Boozer" <sboozer at uchicago.edu> wrote:

> *From:* mayqel qunenoS
> >> {'e' -lu'} is not a permissible construction, unless the {-lu'} is on
> the verb {'aq}.
>
>
>
> *  SIS 'e' 'aqlu', javmaH vatlhvI' DIch*
>   It is predicted it will rain, 60% certainty. (qep'a' 2017)
>
>
>
> However, the {*'e' -lu'*} pattern can indeed be used with verbs other
> than {*‘aq*}.  E.g.
>
>
>
>
> *  Qang QanmeH yan 'ISletlh Damuv 'e' wIvlu'.   *You are chosen to serve
> on the *Yan-Isleth* and protect the chancellor. MKE
>
>
>
> We’ve also seen the pattern {*-lu' 'e' -lu'*} used:
>
>
>
> *  yay chavlu' 'e' bajnISlu'*
>
>   Victory must be earned. TKW
>
> *  yInlu'taH 'e' bajnISlu'*
>   Survival must be earned. TKW
>
>
> *  DIvI' rojmab qep ghanglu' 'e' nIDlu', 'ach taH qep.   *Despite efforts
> to halt them, peace talks with Federation continue. MKE
>
> And we’ve even seen the pattern {*-lu' net*}:
>
>
>
>
> *  vImuHlu' net wuqHa'! *  My death sentence was commuted! (ENT
> "Affliction")
>
> --
> Voragh
>
>
>
> *From:* mayqel qunenoS
>
> {*'e' -lu'*} is not a permissible construction, unless the {-*lu'*} is on
> the verb {*'aq*}.
>
>
>
> Always, as soon as you find yourself wanting to say {yadda yadda *'e'*
> *whatever**lu'*} you should instead write {yadda yadda *net* whatever}
>
>
>
> ~ nI'ghma
>
>
>
> On Nov 30, 2017 9:12 PM, "Aurélie Demonchaux" <
> demonchaux.aurelie at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Today I am trying to grasp the difference between {net + verb} and {'e' +
> verb-lu'}
>
>
>
> The way I understand it is, for example with "Sov"
>
>
>
> net Sov = it is common knowledge that
>
> 'e' Sovlu' = someone (indefinite) knows that
>
>
>
> Thus:
>
> qama'pu' DIHoHbe' net Sov = It is common knowledge that we don't kill
> prisoners
>
> qama'pu' DIHoHbe' 'e' Sovlu' = It is known / someone knows that we don't
> kill prisoners
>
>
>
> Similarly with chaw' :
>
> qama'pu' DIHoH net chaw'be' = we are not allowed to kill prisoners
>
> qama'pu' DIHoH 'e' chaw'lu'be' = someone does not allow us to kill
> prisoners
>
>
>
> Am I getting it right ?
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Aurélie
>
> ghItlhjaj
>
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