{yInSIp} and {voQSiP} (oxygen and nitrogen)
I have learned that {yInSIp} is "oxygen" and {voQSIp} is "nitrogen." Naturally, I looked up {SIp} and found that it means "gas." It would seem, then, that these words refer to the elements in their gaseous states. Today, though, Duolingo gave me {voQSIp taD} as "frozen nitrogen." I believe that frozen nitrogen is nitrogen in its solid state. That would make {-SIp} superfluous, and I would expect it to be {voQ taD}. Do elements that have a gaseous state retain {-SIp} regardless of the element's state? Would it always be something like "frozen oxygen gas" and "frozen nitogen gas"? Sent from Qo'noS
On 10/4/2020 12:19 PM, SCOTT wrote:
I have learned that {yInSIp} is "oxygen" and {voQSIp} is "nitrogen." Naturally, I looked up {SIp} and found that it means "gas."
It would seem, then, that these words refer to the elements in their gaseous states. Today, though, Duolingo gave me {voQSIp taD} as "frozen nitrogen."
I believe that frozen nitrogen is nitrogen in its solid state. That would make {-SIp} superfluous, and I would expect it to be {voQ taD}.
Do elements that have a gaseous state retain {-SIp} regardless of the element's state? Would it always be something like "frozen oxygen gas" and "frozen nitogen gas"?
When Okrand shoves words together to create new complex nouns, it's a clear sign that the word has been lexicalized this way and is considered a fixed word. We have no information about solid or liquid forms of *yInSIp or* *voQSIp,* so we must assume that their English glosses are correct and relatively complete. The glosses of *yInSIp* and *vOQSIp* don't say anything about referring only to gasses beyond a /guessed/ etymology, so we have no reason to suppose they only refer to gasses. We could, if we wanted, invent an etymology that supports any position. I might, for instance, say that Klingons discovered oxygen and nitrogen in their gas forms and named them with *SIp,* and when they later learned of their other physical states, the names were so entrenched that they just continued to use them. But I just made that up. We don't really know. Maybe Klingons have separate words for solid oxygen and nitrogen. Maybe they just switch *SIp* with *lep.* We don't know. Anyway, nobody complains if someone says /frozen water /in English. We say /water vapor/ without blinking. For all we know, *yInSIp taD* is exactly as acceptable. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
Another lexicalized {SIp} noun is {julSIp} “helium” from qepHom 2015. Examples of how such nouns have been used: nIn: rugh bIQSIp Fuel - Anti Hydrogen. (KBoP Poster) nIn: bIQSIp 'ugh Fuel - Deuterium Isotope. (KBoP Poster) [Both types of fuel are listed on the poster? For both the warp and impulse drives?] yoq yIn yuQ 'oH Qo'noS'e'. yInSIp voQSIp je ngaS muDDaj. Qo'noS is a class-M planet with an oxygen/nitrogen atmosphere. (S27) cha’ bIQSIp HeySelmey, wa’ yInSIp HeySel je yugh bIQ ’o’rIS. The water molecule consists of two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom. (Lieven, OK'd by MO at qepHom 2015) -- Voragh _________________________________________________________________ From: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org> On Behalf Of SuStel Sent: Sunday, October 4, 2020 1:55 PM On 10/4/2020 12:19 PM, SCOTT wrote: I have learned that {yInSIp} is "oxygen" and {voQSIp} is "nitrogen." Naturally, I looked up {SIp} and found that it means "gas." It would seem, then, that these words refer to the elements in their gaseous states. Today, though, Duolingo gave me {voQSIp taD} as "frozen nitrogen." I believe that frozen nitrogen is nitrogen in its solid state. That would make {-SIp} superfluous, and I would expect it to be {voQ taD}. Do elements that have a gaseous state retain {-SIp} regardless of the element's state? Would it always be something like "frozen oxygen gas" and "frozen nitogen gas"? When Okrand shoves words together to create new complex nouns, it's a clear sign that the word has been lexicalized this way and is considered a fixed word. We have no information about solid or liquid forms of yInSIp or voQSIp, so we must assume that their English glosses are correct and relatively complete. The glosses of yInSIp and vOQSIp don't say anything about referring only to gasses beyond a guessed etymology, so we have no reason to suppose they only refer to gasses. We could, if we wanted, invent an etymology that supports any position. I might, for instance, say that Klingons discovered oxygen and nitrogen in their gas forms and named them with SIp, and when they later learned of their other physical states, the names were so entrenched that they just continued to use them. But I just made that up. We don't really know. Maybe Klingons have separate words for solid oxygen and nitrogen. Maybe they just switch SIp with lep. We don't know. Anyway, nobody complains if someone says frozen water in English. We say water vapor without blinking. For all we know, yInSIp taD is exactly as acceptable. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/trimboli.name__;!!BpyFHLRN4TMTrA!tgcy6DuYEvmErqWFHc-HZ_I-mJoWl7zXe5_6lxHH-P_53cyIKvIK0y9-aHDt0fu84RI$>
Am 05.10.2020 um 16:22 schrieb Steven Boozer:
nIn: rugh bIQSIp Fuel - Anti Hydrogen. (KBoP Poster)
nIn: bIQSIp 'ugh Fuel - Deuterium Isotope. (KBoP Poster)
[Both types of fuel are listed on the poster? For both the warp and impulse drives?]
There is no fuel listed for the impulse drives. The above types of fuel are both listed under the title of the warp drive. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.tlhInganHol.com http://klingon.wiki/En/bIQSIp
It’s quite possible that both the warp drive and the impulse engines run from energy derived from the same fuel. What fuel is used to power the lights, the computers, the artificial gravity, and everything else on the ship? With current technology, you use different energy sources for different systems, unless you drive an electric car. We don’t know how starships do this. Maybe both the warp drive and the impulse engines are “electric” or some equivalent that has not been invented yet. Maybe the fuel drives the equivalent of an electric generator that powers all the other technology on the ship. The fuel might not be for “the warp drive”. It might be for “the ship”. The largest consumer of energy would be the warp drive, so you could think of it as fuel for the warp drive. Everything else is just peripheral. charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.
On Oct 5, 2020, at 11:46 AM, Lieven L. Litaer <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
Am 05.10.2020 um 16:22 schrieb Steven Boozer:
nIn: rugh bIQSIp Fuel - Anti Hydrogen. (KBoP Poster)
nIn: bIQSIp 'ugh Fuel - Deuterium Isotope. (KBoP Poster)
[Both types of fuel are listed on the poster? For both the warp and impulse drives?]
There is no fuel listed for the impulse drives. The above types of fuel are both listed under the title of the warp drive.
-- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.tlhInganHol.com http://klingon.wiki/En/bIQSIp _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
On 10/5/2020 12:28 PM, Will Martin wrote:
It’s quite possible that both the warp drive and the impulse engines run from energy derived from the same fuel.
What fuel is used to power the lights, the computers, the artificial gravity, and everything else on the ship?
With current technology, you use different energy sources for different systems, unless you drive an electric car. We don’t know how starships do this. Maybe both the warp drive and the impulse engines are “electric” or some equivalent that has not been invented yet. Maybe the fuel drives the equivalent of an electric generator that powers all the other technology on the ship.
The fuel might not be for “the warp drive”. It might be for “the ship”.
The largest consumer of energy would be the warp drive, so you could think of it as fuel for the warp drive. Everything else is just peripheral.
cha'pujqut poQ pIvghor. cha'pujqut poQbe' Hongghor. cha'pujqut HutlhtaHvIS Duj, QaptaH Hongghor, wovwI', De'wI', tlham pargh je. vaj pImba' pIvghor HoS Hal, latlh HoS Hal je. bIQSIp 'ugh, rugh bIQSIp je bIH pIvghor nIn'e'. bIQSIp 'ugh boq lo'law' Hongghor. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
If I had read my entry for {bIQSIp 'ugh} I would have found this entry for deuterium: (STEncyclopedia [1994 ed.; needs page ref]): Isotope of hydrogen consisting of one proton and one neutron in the nucleus, around which circles a single electron. Cryogenic (extremely cold) deuterium was the primary fuel source for the fusion impulse-engine reactors in Federation starships. Deuterium was also used as one of the reactants in the matter/antimatter reaction system in those ships' warp drive. The deuterium was the matter, and anti-hydrogen served as the antimatter. (TNG "Relics") Obligatory Trek trivia: Archer received 2000 liters of deuterium for helping the miners at an unnamed alien deuterium mining colony defend themselves from Klingon raiders. (ENT "Marauders") "I can get deuterium anywhere. I come here because I like you, when you show me hospitality and respect." (Korok to Tessic [local headman], ENT "Marauders") -- Voragh -----Original Message----- From: Lieven L. Litaer Sent: Monday, October 5, 2020 10:46 AM Am 05.10.2020 um 16:22 schrieb Steven Boozer:
nIn: rugh bIQSIp Fuel - Anti Hydrogen. (KBoP Poster)
nIn: bIQSIp 'ugh Fuel - Deuterium Isotope. (KBoP Poster)
[Both types of fuel are listed on the poster? For both the warp and impulse drives?]
There is no fuel listed for the impulse drives. The above types of fuel are both listed under the title of the warp drive.
participants (5)
-
Lieven L. Litaer -
SCOTT -
Steven Boozer -
SuStel -
Will Martin