Can someone explain the difference between {nIteb jIH} and {jImob} ? I *feel* there is a difference, but I can't seem to be able to wrap my mind around to what this difference actually is. ~ mayqel qunen'oS
On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 at 14:11, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
Can someone explain the difference between {nIteb jIH} and {jImob} ?
I *feel* there is a difference, but I can't seem to be able to wrap my mind around to what this difference actually is.
What would the sentence {jIH} by itself mean? A sentence with an adverbial ought to make sense without one. {nIteb jIH} is the same sort of thing as {tugh jIH} or {nom jIH}, an adverbial followed by a pronoun. I don't know what it means. By coincidence, {jIH} is also a verb, so {nIteb jIH} could mean something like "alone he/she monitors him/her/it", but that's clearly not what you intend. -- De'vID
On 11/27/2018 8:11 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
Can someone explain the difference between {nIteb jIH} and {jImob} ?
I *feel* there is a difference, but I can't seem to be able to wrap my mind around to what this difference actually is.
Ignoring the verb *jIH*/monitor,/ I'm not convinced that *nIteb jIH* is a valid sentence. *jIH* is a pronoun, not a verb. It has certain verb-like qualities when it's being linked to a noun, but that doesn't make it a verb, and that's not happening here anyway. There is no noun in this *mu'tlheghqoq.* People read the "to be" section of TKD and get the impression that pronouns act as verbs meaning "to be." This is incorrect. Klingon doesn't have any verb "to be." All you're doing when you say *tlhIngan jIH* is telling your listener that a particular pronoun will be used to refer to a particular noun: /Me Klingon./ What TKD is telling us about "to be" is that what English uses to express "to be" (a dedicated verb) is handled by pronouns in Klingon. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
Am 27.11.2018 um 14:11 schrieb mayqel qunenoS:
Can someone explain the difference between {nIteb jIH} and {jImob} ?
{nIteb} describes the situation of an action, the other is an adjective. You could even say {nIteb jImob}. "I am (the only one who is) alone". Of course, both words cover the same idea. Examples show the difference: {nIteb jISop} "I eat all alone." (my friends might join later) {jImob} "I am lonely" (I have no friends. This life sucks.) Disclaimer: This might possibly not be 100% correct, but it may help you understand the difference. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.de http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/
On Tue, Nov 27, 2018, 15:18 Lieven L. Litaer <levinius@gmx.de wrote:
Am 27.11.2018 um 14:11 schrieb mayqel qunenoS:
Can someone explain the difference between {nIteb jIH} and {jImob} ?
{nIteb} describes the situation of an action, the other is an adjective. You could even say {nIteb jImob}. "I am (the only one who is) alone".
That meaning is {neH} "only", not {nIteb}, which means "acting alone". {nIteb jImob} "Acting by myself, I am alone." (Perhaps you are clarifying that nobody has isolated you.) {jImob jIH neH} "I alone (i.e., only I) am alone". (Perhaps you are the only one without a partner at a social dance.) If you're at a social event and you hide in the corner because you want to, but you're not the only loner there, you could still say {nIteb jImob} but not {jImob jIH neH}. Of course, both words cover the same idea. Examples show the difference:
{nIteb jISop} "I eat all alone." (my friends might join later)
{jImob} "I am lonely" (I have no friends. This life sucks.)
Disclaimer: This might possibly not be 100% correct, but it may help you understand the difference.
-- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.de http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/ _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
Am 27.11.2018 um 15:30 schrieb De'vID:
{nIteb} describes the situation of an action, the other is an adjective. You could even say {nIteb jImob}. "I am (the only one who is) alone".
That meaning is {neH} "only", not {nIteb}, which means "acting alone".
Ehm.... not exactly. When {neH} follows a verb, it trivializes the action. The meaning of only is with nouns only (pun intended). What I tried to express above was like "only I am in this room and nobody else". Also remember the phrase {nIteb SuvnIS SuvwI'} "A warrior must fight alone". He can still fight in a group, but nobody will help him. So he fight "all alone", being the only person hitting the enemy. And then, he cannot be {mob} because there's at least the enemy next to him.
{nIteb jImob} "Acting by myself, I am alone." (Perhaps you are clarifying that nobody has isolated you.)
{jImob jIH neH} "I alone (i.e., only I) am alone". (Perhaps you are the only one without a partner at a social dance.)
Yes, agreed, that's what I wrote in my first line. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.de http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/StarTrekDiscovery
On Tue, Nov 27, 2018, 15:41 Lieven L. Litaer <levinius@gmx.de wrote:
Am 27.11.2018 um 15:30 schrieb De'vID:
{nIteb} describes the situation of an action, the other is an adjective. You could even say {nIteb jImob}. "I am (the only one who is) alone".
That meaning is {neH} "only", not {nIteb}, which means "acting alone".
Ehm.... not exactly. When {neH} follows a verb, it trivializes the action. The meaning of only is with nouns only (pun intended).
Of course. I'm obviously talking about when {neH} follows the pronoun {jIH}. What I tried to express above was like "only I am in this room and
nobody else".
Which is not {nIteb} but {neH}. {nIteb} means "acting alone", not "only (alone)". They're quite distinct ideas which English confuses by using the same word. Also remember the phrase {nIteb SuvnIS SuvwI'} "A warrior must fight
alone". He can still fight in a group, but nobody will help him. So he fight "all alone", being the only person hitting the enemy. And then, he cannot be {mob} because there's at least the enemy next to him.
The distinction I'm pointing out is one between {nIteb} and {neH} (following a noun). If {nIteb jImob} means "I am (the only one who is) alone" as you wrote, then {nIteb SuvnIS SuvwI'} would mean "The warrior (is the only one who) needs to fight". That's not what it means. That meaning is {neH}: {SuvnIS SuvwI' neH}.
{nIteb jImob} "Acting by myself, I am alone." (Perhaps you are
clarifying that nobody has isolated you.)
{jImob jIH neH} "I alone (i.e., only I) am alone". (Perhaps you are the only one without a partner at a social dance.)
Yes, agreed, that's what I wrote in my first line.
You wrote: {nIteb jImob} "I am (the only one who is) alone". This is the opposite of what I wrote above. Your English corresponds to {jImob jIH neH}. -- De'vID
participants (4)
-
De'vID -
Lieven L. Litaer -
mayqel qunenoS -
SuStel