Tell me your opinion on the verb {wam}. Would you use it, in the context of "someone being hunted" as in "someone being persecuted because of his religious/political/sexual etc orientation" ? And if not, then what the jay' would you use instead ? ~ cxcxcxx
On 8/19/2019 10:44 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
Tell me your opinion on the verb {wam}.
Would you use it, in the context of "someone being hunted" as in "someone being persecuted because of his religious/political/sexual etc orientation" ?
And if not, then what the jay' would you use instead ?
You might find a metaphorical use for *wam* in the context of persecution, but it would just be a metaphor. I'd probably go with *'Irgh* /bully, intimidate, pick on, harass/ to express what you describe. *lalDanDajmo' lu'Irgh*/they harass him/her because of his/her religion./ You could express the severity of this further. *lalDanDajmo' lu'Irgh; lutlha' 'ej lutIch.* -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
SuStel:
I'd probably go with 'Irgh bully, intimidate, pick on, harass to express what you describe. lalDanDajmo' lu'Irgh they harass him/her because of his/her religion. You could express the severity of this further. lalDanDajmo' lu'Irgh; lutlha' 'ej lutIch.
Indeed, my first choice would be {'Irgh}. But can we be certain that we can use it for adults, and out of a school setting ? As far as {tlha'} is concerned, there is something which has troubled me with it in the past, but I forgot to ask about it then.. {tlha'} is given as "chase, follow". In english, does the verb "chase" have a negative connotation ? Can I chase someone for a good reason too ? Or is it neutral, and the reason of the chase defines whether it is used for good, or bad ? ~ cbcbcbb
On 8/19/2019 11:06 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
SuStel:
I'd probably go with 'Irgh bully, intimidate, pick on, harass to express what you describe. lalDanDajmo' lu'Irgh they harass him/her because of his/her religion. You could express the severity of this further. lalDanDajmo' lu'Irgh; lutlha' 'ej lutIch.
Indeed, my first choice would be {'Irgh}. But can we be certain that we can use it for adults, and out of a school setting ?
I don't see any reason to think it can only be used in a school setting or only of children.
{tlha'} is given as "chase, follow". In english, does the verb "chase" have a negative connotation ? Can I chase someone for a good reason too ? Or is it neutral, and the reason of the chase defines whether it is used for good, or bad ?
It's neutral. You can chase your dreams. Children can chase each other when they play. You can drink a chaser to chase down hard alcohol. My parents' boat is named///Chasing Rainbows./ Klingon *tlha'* doesn't seem to have any positive or negative connotations to it. In English, /chase/ is something you actively do, while /follow/ could be active or passive (you're being led behind something or someone). So far as we know, Klingon *tlha'* broadly covers both /chase /and/follow./ -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
{tlha’} in canon: qIrq wItlha'taHqu' Where Kirk goes, we follow. (ST5) ngem Sarghmey tlha'laH be able to chase forest *sarks* (KGT) tlha' The Pursuit (section title, PB) tlheDDI' quvmoHmeH veng HeHDaq lutlha' SaD law' nuvpu' Thousands followed him To the edge of the city, To bid him farewell. (PB) qeylIS He tlha'meH qamchIy veng ghoSlI' qotar pa' jubbe'wI'vam HoH 'e' nab [translation unavailable] (PB) nuch ghaH moratlh'e' quvHa' moratlh 'ej jeylu'pu' 'etlhDaj tlha' Morath the coward Jumped after his sword, Dishonored and defeated. (PB) Voragh From: SuStel On 8/19/2019 11:06 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote: mayqel: {tlha'} is given as "chase, follow". In english, does the verb "chase" have a negative connotation ? Can I chase someone for a good reason too ? Or is it neutral, and the reason of the chase defines whether it is used for good, or bad ? It's neutral. You can chase your dreams. Children can chase each other when they play. You can drink a chaser to chase down hard alcohol. My parents' boat is named Chasing Rainbows. Klingon tlha' doesn't seem to have any positive or negative connotations to it. In English, chase is something you actively do, while follow could be active or passive (you're being led behind something or someone). So far as we know, Klingon tlha' broadly covers both chase and follow. --
I think the main reason that we associate “bullying” with high school is that it is very natural for certain adolescents (especially male adolecents) to go through a developmental social experiment as part of their attempt at empowerment as an individual (especially if they are immature, not very smart, but physically powerful) to bully others, until the society at large sets them straight, or until they grow up emotionally and find other more constructive ways to achieve prowess and social confidence through more positive emotional relationship building methods. Meanwhile, a minority of bullies never grow up. They never achieve more healthy, more positive relationships with others. Happiness and confidence become unachievable for them, and so they tend to become at least mildly psychopathic if not wholly psychopathic, and they remain bullies for the rest of their lives. The main thing that sets them apart from the majority of psychopaths is that most psychopaths are intelligent. This is a softer requirement for being a successful bully than for being a successful psychopath. Being set up as a billionaire by family during the childhood bully phase also tends to retard one’s capacity to outgrow the behavior. charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.
On Aug 19, 2019, at 11:06 AM, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
SuStel:
I'd probably go with 'Irgh bully, intimidate, pick on, harass to express what you describe. lalDanDajmo' lu'Irgh they harass him/her because of his/her religion. You could express the severity of this further. lalDanDajmo' lu'Irgh; lutlha' 'ej lutIch.
Indeed, my first choice would be {'Irgh}. But can we be certain that we can use it for adults, and out of a school setting ?
As far as {tlha'} is concerned, there is something which has troubled me with it in the past, but I forgot to ask about it then..
{tlha'} is given as "chase, follow". In english, does the verb "chase" have a negative connotation ? Can I chase someone for a good reason too ? Or is it neutral, and the reason of the chase defines whether it is used for good, or bad ?
~ cbcbcbb _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
We have seen {wamwI’} used metaphorically: QotDI' gheD tlhejbe' wamwI' The hunter does not lie down with the prey. (TKW) And another example with {gheD}: gheDlIj DaHoHHa'pu' moratlh 'ej gheDDaj charghHa' molor Qob qo' qeylIS yIqIm Morath, you failed to kill your prey So will Molor fail to conquer his Kahless, be aware of danger in all forms. (PB) Unless they are actually being hunted down, I would stick with {’Irgh}. As Sustel suggested, you have {tlha'} “chase, follow” as well as {qop} “arrest” and {jon} “capture”. And in addition to {tIch} “insult” there is {tuHmoH} “shame [someone]”, {vaq} “mock, taunt” and {ghong} “abuse“. Voragh From: SuStel On 8/19/2019 10:44 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote: Tell me your opinion on the verb {wam}. Would you use it, in the context of "someone being hunted" as in "someone being persecuted because of his religious/political/sexual etc orientation" ? And if not, then what the jay' would you use instead ? You might find a metaphorical use for wam in the context of persecution, but it would just be a metaphor. I'd probably go with 'Irgh bully, intimidate, pick on, harass to express what you describe. lalDanDajmo' lu'Irgh they harass him/her because of his/her religion. You could express the severity of this further. lalDanDajmo' lu'Irgh; lutlha' 'ej lutIch. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 at 18:15, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
De'vID:
Only if they're literally being hunted.
Sorry for the silly question, but do you mean "hunted for food" ?
No. You know how some authoritarian governments go door-to-door to look for people to imprison/kill? It's not for food, but it's still hunting.
If one is literally being hunted, i.e. someone persecutes him with the purpose of catching him and killing him, e.g. for racial reasons, then {wam} is ok ?
If it's literally someone physically tracking someone down to capture (or kill) them, then it falls within the literal meaning. If someone is just being bullied or persecuted, but not being physically chased down, then it's a metaphorical use of "hunt", and we don't know if Klingons have the same metaphor. Klingons, for example, seem to value prey (or even food) that fights back. Prey may be expected to pose some kind of challenge. Referring to the persecution of someone who is much weaker than you, or powerless, as "hunting" might be considered inaccurate or offensive. We don't know. -- De'vID
On Aug 20, 2019, at 01:50, De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 at 18:15, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote: De'vID:
Only if they're literally being hunted.
Sorry for the silly question, but do you mean "hunted for food" ?
No. You know how some authoritarian governments go door-to-door to look for people to imprison/kill? It's not for food, but it's still hunting.
Even when you’re talking about going out into the forest with a rifle to track down and shoot animals, a lot of people do that “for sport” and not for food. I don’t think a Klingon would find that particularly sporty: {Ha'DIbaH DaSop 'e' DaHechbe'chugh yIHoHQo'} -TKW p. 163
On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 at 16:44, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
Tell me your opinion on the verb {wam}.
Would you use it, in the context of "someone being hunted" as in "someone being persecuted because of his religious/political/sexual etc orientation" ?
Only if they're literally being hunted. And if not, then what the jay' would you use instead ?
Actual hunting? -- De'vID
participants (6)
-
De'vID -
Hugh Son puqloD -
mayqel qunen'oS -
Steven Boozer -
SuStel -
Will Martin