[tlhIngan-Hol] Sentence as subject
I remember reading somewhere (I think in the wiki), that sentence as subject is not allowed. However, I can't understand how someone can use a sentence as subject in the first place. Can someone write an example of a sentence as subject, so that I will understand, what someone is supposed to avoid ? thanks qunnoq
On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 11:28 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
I remember reading somewhere (I think in the wiki), that sentence as subject is not allowed.
However, I can't understand how someone can use a sentence as subject in the first place.
Can someone write an example of a sentence as subject, so that I will understand, what someone is supposed to avoid ?
thanks
qunnoq
Like these?
His hitting the ball was good Shooting the target is difficult Cooking the cake was a lot of fun qurgh
An example of a sentence as a sentence as an object (allowed) would be: «QaQ 'e' vISov.» ("I know that it's good.") An example where people might want to use a sentence as a subject (forbidden) is when translating "It's good that I know."; people might be tempted to write *jISov QaQ 'e'* or *QaQ 'e' jISov*. Instead, we have to do recasts such as «jISov; QaQ.» or «jISovchugh QaQ ghu'.» ________________________________________ From: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org> on behalf of mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, June 3, 2016 5:28:35 PM To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list Subject: [tlhIngan-Hol] Sentence as subject I remember reading somewhere (I think in the wiki), that sentence as subject is not allowed. However, I can't understand how someone can use a sentence as subject in the first place. Can someone write an example of a sentence as subject, so that I will understand, what someone is supposed to avoid ? thanks qunnoq _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
On 6/3/2016 11:28 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
I remember reading somewhere (I think in the wiki), that sentence as subject is not allowed.
However, I can't understand how someone can use a sentence as subject in the first place.
Can someone write an example of a sentence as subject, so that I will understand, what someone is supposed to avoid ?
An example, in English, of something that could be considered sentence-as-subject: /The Klingon killing the Ferengi is good. It is good that the Klingon killed the Ferengi./ Here, /it/ stands in for the postcedent /the Klingon killed the Ferengi./ In Klingon, you cannot say **QaQ verengan HoHpu' tlhIngan *or ****verengan HoHpu' tlhIngan **QaQ 'e'.* You must recast. Perhaps *verengan HoHpu'mo' tlhIngan QaQ ghu'*/**because the Klingon killed the Ferengi the situation is good/ or *QaQ tlhIngan verengan HoHpu'ghach*/the Klingon's Ferengi-killing is good/ (this latter might be hard to parse). -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 11:28 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
I remember reading somewhere (I think in the wiki), that sentence as subject is not allowed.
However, I can't understand how someone can use a sentence as subject in the first place.
Can someone write an example of a sentence as subject, so that I will understand, what someone is supposed to avoid ?
---> It is normal that we can write such an English sentence. The verb is "be normal". The subject is "it", which is a cataphoric stand-in for the sentence which follows the verb. In Klingon grammar, some people try to write sentences like this, with the pronoun {'e'} in the object spot for a verb that doesn't usually make sense with an object. That looks right after being translated into English, but the grammar is not supported in Klingon. We can rephrase the English thus: ---> That we can write such an English sentence is normal. Translating this directly into Klingon would end up with {'e'} in the subject spot, and {'e'} is only ever an object. For example, if you want to ask "Is it important that I understand this idea?", do NOT translate it as {*potlh'a' 'e' qechvam vIyaj}. Rephrase it to get rid of what looks like a sentence as object, because it is actually a sentence as subject, and Klingon has no straightforward tool for doing that. -- ghunchu'wI'
thank you all very much ! I understand now, what a "sentence as subject" actually is. SuvwI' Hol vIyajqu'meH tuQaHta'mo', tlho'wIj boghajqa' ! because you helped me in order to better understand the warrior's tongue, once more you have my gratitude ! mayqel On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 6:48 PM, Alan Anderson <qunchuy@alcaco.net> wrote:
On Fri, Jun 3, 2016 at 11:28 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
I remember reading somewhere (I think in the wiki), that sentence as subject is not allowed.
However, I can't understand how someone can use a sentence as subject in the first place.
Can someone write an example of a sentence as subject, so that I will understand, what someone is supposed to avoid ?
---> It is normal that we can write such an English sentence.
The verb is "be normal". The subject is "it", which is a cataphoric stand-in for the sentence which follows the verb.
In Klingon grammar, some people try to write sentences like this, with the pronoun {'e'} in the object spot for a verb that doesn't usually make sense with an object. That looks right after being translated into English, but the grammar is not supported in Klingon. We can rephrase the English thus:
---> That we can write such an English sentence is normal.
Translating this directly into Klingon would end up with {'e'} in the subject spot, and {'e'} is only ever an object.
For example, if you want to ask "Is it important that I understand this idea?", do NOT translate it as {*potlh'a' 'e' qechvam vIyaj}. Rephrase it to get rid of what looks like a sentence as object, because it is actually a sentence as subject, and Klingon has no straightforward tool for doing that.
-- ghunchu'wI' _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
participants (5)
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Alan Anderson -
Felix Malmenbeck -
mayqel qunenoS -
qurgh lungqIj -
SuStel