On Thu, Dec 29, 2016 at 1:38 PM, Michael Roney, Jr. <nahqun@gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, Dec 29, 2016 at 9:30 AM, Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu> wrote:

...

Also from qepHom 2016:

paq nojwI' qach library (building) (n) paq nojwI' tum library (public) (n)

Do we know what the difference between libraries is?

One is a physical building {qach}, while the other is an agency that runs public versions of those buildings {tum}. qurgh

Okrand made a point of distinguishing the actual building a few times at qepHom 2016: landmark Daq noy (not a building) landmark qach noy (building) monument, memorial van Hew (sculpture) monument, memorial van qach (building) postal service QIn tum post office (building) QIn tum qach planetarium logh chal je 'angweD planetarium (building) logh chal je 'angweD qach … and from elsewhere we know of: tower chalqach house juH qach hospital ropyaH qach theater (i.e. building) much qach --Voragh P.S. {'angweD} “museum” (n) On Behalf Of Terrence Donnelly Speaking as a librarian, I was thrilled to see that these terms exist; I missed them initially, somehow. To me, the {paq nojwI' qach} is the literal building housing the books and the staff, while the {tum} refers to the entity more abstractly. If you said, "I'll check the Library and see if they have that" and you used your phone app or the on-line catalog, it would be the {tum} you are accessing, but not the {qach}. If you are talking about visiting the library, I don't see much difference. I also don't see how {tum} implies "public", but that's how it's glossed, so be it. BTW, I would qualify {De' QulwI'} as not just "librarian", but specifically "research librarian". In fact, as the term stands, it could refer to anyone in the data analysis or research field. {paq nojwI'} is much more appropriate for what I do all day. ter'eS ________________________________ From: "Michael Roney, Jr." <nahqun@gmail.com<mailto:nahqun@gmail.com>> On Thu, Dec 29, 2016 at 9:30 AM, Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu<mailto:sboozer@uchicago.edu>> wrote:

Also from qepHom 2016:

paq nojwI' qach library (building) (n) paq nojwI' tum library (public) (n)

Do we know what the difference between libraries is?

In the past we’ve sometimes used {le'} “be special, exceptional” in the for private and {le'be'} “be unexceptional, nonspecific general” for public. When he was working on voice recognition software for KCD at Dragon Systems, Mark Mandel posted: (Mark Mandel, [199?]): Since my office is in a different building from the company reception desk I prefer to give people the number of the fax machine closest to my desk. I put both numbers on the letterhead, labeling them in English “Klingon fax” and “general fax”. Dr. Okrand suggested {le'be'} for “general”, and so of course that's what I used. nav HablI' le'be' general FAX (vs. a private machine) See Okrand’s note on this in HolQeD 5.2. It’s not perfect, but Klingons may not have a concept of – or a word for - privacy; many Earth cultures don’t. Alternatively, you could just add {qum} “government”, {veng} “city”, {Sep} “region, country”, {wo'} “empire”, etc., at the beginning. --Voragh On Behalf Of mayqel qunenoS {paq nojwI' tum} is public library. but how could we specify/describe a private library ? qunnoH jan puqloD ghoghwIj HablI'vo' vIngeHta' On 29 Dec 2016 9:17 pm, "Steven Boozer" <sboozer@uchicago.edu<mailto:sboozer@uchicago.edu>> wrote: Okrand made a point of distinguishing the actual building a few times at qepHom 2016: landmark Daq noy (not a building) landmark qach noy (building) monument, memorial van Hew (sculpture) monument, memorial van qach (building) postal service QIn tum post office (building) QIn tum qach planetarium logh chal je 'angweD planetarium (building) logh chal je 'angweD qach … and from elsewhere we know of: tower chalqach house juH qach hospital ropyaH qach theater (i.e. building) much qach --Voragh P.S. {'angweD} “museum” (n) On Behalf Of Terrence Donnelly Speaking as a librarian, I was thrilled to see that these terms exist; I missed them initially, somehow. To me, the {paq nojwI' qach} is the literal building housing the books and the staff, while the {tum} refers to the entity more abstractly. If you said, "I'll check the Library and see if they have that" and you used your phone app or the on-line catalog, it would be the {tum} you are accessing, but not the {qach}. If you are talking about visiting the library, I don't see much difference. I also don't see how {tum} implies "public", but that's how it's glossed, so be it. BTW, I would qualify {De' QulwI'} as not just "librarian", but specifically "research librarian". In fact, as the term stands, it could refer to anyone in the data analysis or research field. {paq nojwI'} is much more appropriate for what I do all day. ter'eS ________________________________ From: "Michael Roney, Jr." <nahqun@gmail.com<mailto:nahqun@gmail.com>> On Thu, Dec 29, 2016 at 9:30 AM, Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu<mailto:sboozer@uchicago.edu>> wrote:

Also from qepHom 2016:

paq nojwI' qach library (building) (n) paq nojwI' tum library (public) (n)

Do we know what the difference between libraries is?

voragh:

See Okrand’s note on this in *HolQeD* 5.2.

Since I don't have HolQeD, could you post here this article ? qunnoH jan puqloD ghoghwIj HablI'vo' vIngeHta' On 29 Dec 2016 10:21 pm, "DloraH" <seruq@bellsouth.net> wrote:

In the cities I've lived in, the public library system had more than one building. There were several paq nojwI' qach scattered around the city. I think paq nojwI' tum refers to that overall collection of buildings that work together to make up the "Public Library" that most cities have. I think he included "public" in parentheses because I'm think a private library would probably be just one building, and thus wouldn't need a separate "agency".

- DloraH

On Thu, 2016-12-29 at 18:49 +0000, Terrence Donnelly wrote:

...

Speaking as a librarian, I was thrilled to see that these terms exist; I missed them initially, somehow. To me, the {paq nojwI' qach} is the literal building housing the books and the staff, while the {tum} refers to the entity more abstractly. If you said, "I'll check the Library and see if they have that" and you used your phone app or the on-line catalog, it would be the {tum} you are accessing, but not the {qach}. If you are talking about visiting the library, I don't see much difference. I also don't see how {tum} implies "public", but that's how it's glossed, so be it.

BTW, I would qualify {De' QulwI'} as not just "librarian", but specifically "research librarian". In fact, as the term stands, it could refer to anyone in the data analysis or research field. {paq nojwI'} is much more appropriate for what I do all day. ter'eS

From: "Michael Roney, Jr." <nahqun@gmail.com> To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list <tlhingan-hol@kli.org> Sent: Thursday, December 29, 2016 12:38 PM Subject: Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Klingon Word of the Day: De' QulwI'

On Thu, Dec 29, 2016 at 9:30 AM, Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu> wrote:

...

Also from qepHom 2016:

paq nojwI' qach library (building) (n) paq nojwI' tum library (public) (n)

Do we know what the difference between libraries is?

-- ~Michael Roney, Jr. Freelance Translator _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org

_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo. cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org

_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org

On Thu, Dec 29, 2016 at 3:38 PM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:

voragh:

...

See Okrand’s note on this in *HolQeD* 5.2.

Since I don't have HolQeD, could you post here this article ?

Klingonska Akademien is a useful resource for finding such information. http://klingonska.org/canon/search/?file=1996-06-holqed-05-2-c.txt -- ghunchu'wI'

Indeed. See also from qepHom 2016: postal service QIn tum post office (building) QIn tum qach The {QIn tum} has thousands of branches, sometimes dozens in the same city, but one over-arching agency or bureaucracy. It seems obvious that {QIn tum qach} refers to a specific building. Why are people confused by this?

a private library would probably be just one building, and thus wouldn't need a separate "agency".

Depends on what exactly a {tum} is. Does it refer to only government {qum} agencies or any kind of administration {loH}? Here at the University of Chicago Library (where I work) consists of several specialized library buildings scattered over the south side of Chicago, but one central organization housed in the largest of them. --Voragh DloraH:

In the cities I've lived in, the public library system had more than one building. There were several paq nojwI' qach scattered around the city. I think paq nojwI' tum refers to that overall collection of buildings that work together to make up the "Public Library" that most cities have. I think he included "public" in parentheses because I'm think a private library would probably be just one building, and thus wouldn't need a separate "agency".

On Thu, 2016-12-29 at 18:49 +0000, Terrence Donnelly wrote:

...

To me, the {paq nojwI' qach} is the literal building housing the books and the staff, while the {tum} refers to the entity more abstractly. If you said, "I'll check the Library and see if they have that" and you used your phone app or the on-line catalog, it would be the {tum} you are accessing, but not the {qach}. If you are talking about visiting the library, I don't see much difference. I also don't see how {tum} implies "public", but that's how it's glossed, so be it.

On Thu, Dec 29, 2016 at 9:30 AM, Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu> wrote:

...

Also from qepHom 2016:

paq nojwI' qach library (building) (n) paq nojwI' tum library (public) (n)

Do we know what the difference between libraries is?

-- ~Michael Roney, Jr.