Klingon Word of the Day: puqloD
Klingon Word of the Day for Monday, October 23, 2017 Klingon word: puqloD Part of speech: noun Definition: son Source: TKD This Klingon Word of the Day is brought to you by qurgh (qurgh@kli.org).
Klingon word: puqloD Part of speech: noun Definition: son Source: TKD _______________________________________________ wa' jaj 'etlh 'uchchoHlaH tlhIngan puqloD; jajvetlh loD nen moj The son of a Klingon is a man the day he can first hold a blade. TKW qaStaHvIS wej puq poHmey vav puqloDpu' puqloDpu'chaj je quvHa'moH vav quvHa'ghach The dishonor of the father dishonors his sons and their sons for three generations. TKW puqloDwI' le'qu', Hoch jaj choquvmoH My dearest son, each day you redeem me. (Frasier) Qoy qeylIS puqloD. Qoy puqbe'pu' Hear! Sons of Kahless. Hear! Daughters too. (Anthem) Qo'noS tlhInganpu': qeylIS puqloDpu' puqbe'pu' je. Klingons of Kronos: sons and daughters of Kahless. ('u'-MTK) yatlh luqara' puqloD wa'DIch qenglI' Lukara, pregnant of their first-born son (PB) SuvwI' DameH puqloDwI' vIghojHa'moH DaH 'e' vItlhoj I see now, I have failed to raise my son a man (PB) LANGUAGE NOTES: (KGT 198f.) ... a parent may address a son as puqloDoy and a daughter as puqbe'oy. As with the terms for parents, the -oy form is seldom used past the child's Age of Ascension. (KGT 197): It is always proper to call somebody by his or her name alone... During formal occasions, it is also not uncommon to refer to someone by his or her father's name, such as mogh puqloD (son of Mogh) or a combination of given name plus father's name, such as HuS 'atrom puqbe' (Huss, daughter of A'trom). (st.k 9/1997): If you want to be even more formal, the name of the father may be used as well... "Kahlor, son of Kahlin, of the House of Molor" is "Kahlor, son of Kahlin, House of Molor" qeylor qeylIn puqloD molor tuq." (KGT 182): For example, in the ceremony to induct new members into the Order of the Bat'leth (betleH 'obe'), the highest honor that the government bestows on a Klingon, the presiding official, usually the leader of the Klingon High Council, first reads a name from the naD tetlh (Commendation List), always calling out the inductee's name in the most formal way (given name plus father's name, such as tI'vIS barot puqloD [T'vis, son of Barot]). CULTURAL NOTES: The Klingon law of heredity (*g'now juk Hol pajhard* "A son shall share in the honors or crimes of his father") would have required the execution of Worf and his brother Kurn for the treachery of their father, Mogh, had not those charges proven false. (cf. TNG "Redemption I") -- Voragh Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
*> SuvwI' DameH puqloDwI' vIghojHa'moH DaH 'e' vItlhoj*
I see now, I have failed to raise my son a man (PB)
If I read that sentence without knowing the translation beforehand, I would understand that "purposefully I misraised my son, in order to behave as a warrior". ~ nIghma' On Oct 23, 2017 18:21, "Steven Boozer" <sboozer@uchicago.edu> wrote:
Klingon word: puqloD
Part of speech: noun
Definition: son
Source: TKD
_______________________________________________
*wa' jaj 'etlh 'uchchoHlaH tlhIngan puqloD*;* jajvetlh loD nen moj*
The son of a Klingon is a man the day he can first hold a blade. TKW
*qaStaHvIS wej puq poHmey vav puqloDpu' puqloDpu'chaj je quvHa'moH vav quvHa'ghach*
The dishonor of the father dishonors his sons and their sons for three generations. TKW
*puqloDwI' le'qu', Hoch jaj choquvmoH *
My dearest son, each day you redeem me. (Frasier)
*Qoy qeylIS puqloD*.* Qoy puqbe'pu'*
Hear! Sons of Kahless. Hear! Daughters too. (Anthem)
*Qo'noS tlhInganpu': qeylIS puqloDpu' puqbe'pu' je. *
Klingons of Kronos: sons and daughters of Kahless. ('u'-MTK)
*yatlh luqara' puqloD wa'DIch qenglI'*
Lukara, pregnant of their first-born son (PB)
*SuvwI' DameH puqloDwI' vIghojHa'moH DaH 'e' vItlhoj*
I see now, I have failed to raise my son a man (PB)
LANGUAGE NOTES:
(KGT 198f.) ... a parent may address a son as *puqloDoy* and a daughter as *puqbe'oy*. As with the terms for parents, the -*oy* form is seldom used past the child's Age of Ascension.
(KGT 197): It is always proper to call somebody by his or her name alone... During formal occasions, it is also not uncommon to refer to someone by his or her father's name, such as *mogh puqloD* (*son of Mogh*) or a combination of given name plus father's name, such as *HuS 'atrom puqbe'* (*Huss*, *daughter of A'trom*).
(st.k 9/1997): If you want to be even more formal, the name of the father may be used as well... "Kahlor, son of Kahlin, of the House of Molor" is "Kahlor, son of Kahlin, House of Molor" *qeylor qeylIn puqloD molor tuq*."
(KGT 182): For example, in the ceremony to induct new members into the Order of the *Bat'leth* (*betleH 'obe'*), the highest honor that the government bestows on a Klingon, the presiding official, usually the leader of the Klingon High Council, first reads a name from the *naD tetlh* (*Commendation List*), always calling out the inductee's name in the most formal way (given name plus father's name, such as *tI'vIS barot puqloD* [T'vis, son of Barot]).
CULTURAL NOTES:
The Klingon law of heredity (**g'now** juk Hol pajhard** “*A son shall share in the honors or crimes of his father”*) would have required the execution of Worf and his brother Kurn for the treachery of their father, Mogh, had not those charges proven false. (*cf. *TNG "Redemption I")
-- Voragh *Ca'Non Master of the Klingons*
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
I tried reading it without looking at the translation and I get: "For my son to act like a warrior, I taught him wrong; I realize that now." which is what I think the sentence indicated. The missunderstanding arises from the ambiguity of scope of modifying suffixes like -Ha', -be', -vIp, etc. Is it the "teaching him to become a warrior" that failed (-Ha'), or is it the "miss-teaching" that was done in order for his son to become a warrior? Context is king. Another example: {qanuQmeH jIjatlhbe'.} This is ambiguous, in my opinion, because the scope of the negation is not clear. There are two readings: a) I didn't say anything. I did that, because I want to annoy you. (i.e. you would have prefered I say something) b) I didn't say anything that could annoy you. (i.e. I didn't insult or bother you) The English "I didn't say anything to annoy you." is similarly ambiguous. - André 2017-10-24 11:05 GMT+02:00 mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com>:
*> SuvwI' DameH puqloDwI' vIghojHa'moH DaH 'e' vItlhoj*
I see now, I have failed to raise my son a man (PB)
If I read that sentence without knowing the translation beforehand, I would understand that "purposefully I misraised my son, in order to behave as a warrior".
~ nIghma'
On Oct 23, 2017 18:21, "Steven Boozer" <sboozer@uchicago.edu> wrote:
Klingon word: puqloD
Part of speech: noun
Definition: son
Source: TKD
_______________________________________________
*wa' jaj 'etlh 'uchchoHlaH tlhIngan puqloD*;* jajvetlh loD nen moj*
The son of a Klingon is a man the day he can first hold a blade. TKW
*qaStaHvIS wej puq poHmey vav puqloDpu' puqloDpu'chaj je quvHa'moH vav quvHa'ghach*
The dishonor of the father dishonors his sons and their sons for three generations. TKW
*puqloDwI' le'qu', Hoch jaj choquvmoH *
My dearest son, each day you redeem me. (Frasier)
*Qoy qeylIS puqloD*.* Qoy puqbe'pu'*
Hear! Sons of Kahless. Hear! Daughters too. (Anthem)
*Qo'noS tlhInganpu': qeylIS puqloDpu' puqbe'pu' je. *
Klingons of Kronos: sons and daughters of Kahless. ('u'-MTK)
*yatlh luqara' puqloD wa'DIch qenglI'*
Lukara, pregnant of their first-born son (PB)
*SuvwI' DameH puqloDwI' vIghojHa'moH DaH 'e' vItlhoj*
I see now, I have failed to raise my son a man (PB)
LANGUAGE NOTES:
(KGT 198f.) ... a parent may address a son as *puqloDoy* and a daughter as *puqbe'oy*. As with the terms for parents, the -*oy* form is seldom used past the child's Age of Ascension.
(KGT 197): It is always proper to call somebody by his or her name alone... During formal occasions, it is also not uncommon to refer to someone by his or her father's name, such as *mogh puqloD* (*son of Mogh*) or a combination of given name plus father's name, such as *HuS 'atrom puqbe'* (*Huss*, *daughter of A'trom*).
(st.k 9/1997): If you want to be even more formal, the name of the father may be used as well... "Kahlor, son of Kahlin, of the House of Molor" is "Kahlor, son of Kahlin, House of Molor" *qeylor qeylIn puqloD molor tuq*."
(KGT 182): For example, in the ceremony to induct new members into the Order of the *Bat'leth* (*betleH 'obe'*), the highest honor that the government bestows on a Klingon, the presiding official, usually the leader of the Klingon High Council, first reads a name from the *naD tetlh* (*Commendation List*), always calling out the inductee's name in the most formal way (given name plus father's name, such as *tI'vIS barot puqloD* [T'vis, son of Barot]).
CULTURAL NOTES:
The Klingon law of heredity (**g'now** juk Hol pajhard** “*A son shall share in the honors or crimes of his father”*) would have required the execution of Worf and his brother Kurn for the treachery of their father, Mogh, had not those charges proven false. (*cf. *TNG "Redemption I")
-- Voragh *Ca'Non Master of the Klingons*
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 6:44 AM, André Müller <esperantist@gmail.com> wrote:
I tried reading it without looking at the translation and I get: "For my son to act like a warrior, I taught him wrong; I realize that now." which is what I think the sentence indicated.
*-meH* seems to be used to mean both "in order to verb" and "for the purposes of verbing". It might just be a context thing. The intended meaning of *Heghlu'meH QaQ jajvam* is "This day is good, for the purposes of someone dying", not "This day is good, and the reason it is good is so that someone dies."
Another example: {qanuQmeH jIjatlhbe'.}
This is ambiguous, in my opinion, because the scope of the negation is not clear. There are two readings: a) I didn't say anything. I did that, because I want to annoy you. (i.e. you would have prefered I say something) b) I didn't say anything that could annoy you. (i.e. I didn't insult or bother you)
I would probably interpret this as a), since I don't think the negation on the *jatlh* can include the *-meH* clause in its scope. If I wanted to say b), I would just use a relative clause: *DunuQlaHbogh vay' vIjatlhbe'*
This all reminds me of a known issue with the {-meH}. One can't say {qaghommeH jIpaS} for "I was late to meet you", because the klingon sentence actually means "in order to meet you I was late". ~ nIghma' On Oct 24, 2017 5:30 PM, "nIqolay Q" <niqolay0@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 6:44 AM, André Müller <esperantist@gmail.com> wrote:
I tried reading it without looking at the translation and I get: "For my son to act like a warrior, I taught him wrong; I realize that now." which is what I think the sentence indicated.
*-meH* seems to be used to mean both "in order to verb" and "for the purposes of verbing". It might just be a context thing. The intended meaning of *Heghlu'meH QaQ jajvam* is "This day is good, for the purposes of someone dying", not "This day is good, and the reason it is good is so that someone dies."
Another example: {qanuQmeH jIjatlhbe'.}
This is ambiguous, in my opinion, because the scope of the negation is not clear. There are two readings: a) I didn't say anything. I did that, because I want to annoy you. (i.e. you would have prefered I say something) b) I didn't say anything that could annoy you. (i.e. I didn't insult or bother you)
I would probably interpret this as a), since I don't think the negation on the *jatlh* can include the *-meH* clause in its scope. If I wanted to say b), I would just use a relative clause: *DunuQlaHbogh vay' vIjatlhbe'*
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
participants (5)
-
André Müller -
Klingon Word of the Day -
mayqel qunenoS -
nIqolay Q -
Steven Boozer