'op ret {loch} wot chenmoHta'DI' 'oqranD, SIbI' jIQubpu': < maj, DaH mu'vam vIlo'taHvIS, jIjatlhlaH "the enemy destroyed two thirds of our ships". > 'a {loch} vIlo'taHvIS, not mu'tlheghvam vIqonlaHpu' ghIq 'e' vItlhoj. vaj chay' mu'vam lo'laH vay' jay'? *lo'laHbe'chu'law' mu'vam. ~ Dana'an
DujmeymajvaD Qaw’ta’bogh jagh lochmoH cha’’e’ wavbogh wej taQ, ‘ach Qap ‘e’ vIHar. charghwI’ Sent from my iPad
On Apr 22, 2021, at 8:03 AM, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
'op ret {loch} wot chenmoHta'DI' 'oqranD, SIbI' jIQubpu': < maj, DaH mu'vam vIlo'taHvIS, jIjatlhlaH "the enemy destroyed two thirds of our ships". > 'a {loch} vIlo'taHvIS, not mu'tlheghvam vIqonlaHpu' ghIq 'e' vItlhoj.
vaj chay' mu'vam lo'laH vay' jay'? *lo'laHbe'chu'law' mu'vam.
~ Dana'an _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
charghwI' mu'tlhegh vIlaDqa' 'ach vIyajlaHbe' 'e' vIHar DIvI' Hol mu'tlhegh vIghajbe'chugh. SuStel mu'tlheghmey vIyaj. wot <loch> lo'meH ghantoH wIghajbe', qar'a'? mu'vam wIghaj vItlhobpu'mo'. ngugh mI' naQbe' mu'mey neH DIghajtaHbogh bIHtaH bID'e' vatlhvI''e' je, qar'a'? cha'logh vItlhobpu'. wa'DIch poH chabal tetlhDaq mI' naQbe' 'oSmeH mu' vItlhobpu'DI', DIp /SubmaH/ wIHev. qep'a' 25Daq DIpvam 'anglu'pu'. jIyepbe'ba'taH jItlhobDI'. SubmaHmey 'oSmeH Ho'DoS vIneHtaH. vaj vItlhobqa'DI' jIyep'eghmoH. DIS veb wot /loch/ wIHevpu'. jIyonbe' jIH je. Soy'law'. to'waQwam vIyIvtaHvIS, mI'QeD Hol HochHom'e' 'angbogh 'oqranD vIpar, 'ach vuDwIj tlhob pagh. ~mIp'av
On 4/22/2021 8:03 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
'op ret {loch} wot chenmoHta'DI' 'oqranD, SIbI' jIQubpu': < maj, DaH mu'vam vIlo'taHvIS, jIjatlhlaH "the enemy destroyed two thirds of our ships". > 'a {loch} vIlo'taHvIS, not mu'tlheghvam vIqonlaHpu' ghIq 'e' vItlhoj.
vaj chay' mu'vam lo'laH vay' jay'? *lo'laHbe'chu'law' mu'vam.
*mID HubmeH Sa', yo' Hoch lochbogh nawlogh ngeHpu'. */To defend the colony, the general has sent a squadron, a fraction of the entire fleet./ *mangghommaj Sangpu' jagh. majeghnIS. */The enemy has obliterated our army. We must surrender. /*bo'Degh'a' Dalo'. QaSmaj lochwI' mach HoHpu'. yap noDmeH HoSmaj. */You exaggerate. They have killed a small fraction of our troops. We have the strength to retaliate./ I might even expect something like this: ** *HochHom Dujmaj Qaw'pu' jagh: wej loch cha'. */The enemy has destroyed two-thirds of our ships. /(Literally, "The enemy has destroyed most of our ships: two-thirds.") -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
Sojvam vIQulqa'ta', 'ej 'op Ca'Non mu'tlhegh tu'lu', 'a napchu' mu'tlheghmeyvam: wej loch cha' vagh loch wej loS loch jav wa' loch wej Do'Ha' QaHlaHbe' mu'tlheghmeyvam. ~ Dana'an
lI'chu'be' ghantoHmeyvam. SengHey vItu'. mI' 'oH SubmaH'e'. SubmaH chenmoHmeH mIw Del wot <loch>. vagh loch wej; chen pagh vI' jav, qar'a'? <vaghlogh boqHa'egh wej; chen pagh vI' jav> jatlhlu'chugh, rap. mu'tlhegh wa'DIch ngaj law', cha'DIch ngaj puS. 'a chay' 'ut wot <loch>? HutmaH Hut Duj luyughchugh yo' 'ej ghIq javmaH jav luQaw'chugh jagh, chaq jIjatlh <Hoch wej Duj cha' Qaw'pu' jagh>. ghantoH lI' vIleghpa' <loch> wotvam chu' vIlo' 'e' vIHon. ~mIp'av On Friday, April 23, 2021, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
Sojvam vIQulqa'ta', 'ej 'op Ca'Non mu'tlhegh tu'lu', 'a napchu' mu'tlheghmeyvam:
wej loch cha' vagh loch wej loS loch jav wa' loch wej
Do'Ha' QaHlaHbe' mu'tlheghmeyvam.
~ Dana'an
On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 at 17:06, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
Sojvam vIQulqa'ta', 'ej 'op Ca'Non mu'tlhegh tu'lu', 'a napchu' mu'tlheghmeyvam:
wej loch cha' vagh loch wej loS loch jav wa' loch wej
Do'Ha' QaHlaHbe' mu'tlheghmeyvam.
The original text is here: https://www.kli.org/activities/qepmey/qepa-chamah-javdich/qepa-chamah-javdic... <<{wej loch cha’} “2/3”; {vagh loch wej} “3/5”; {loS loch jav} “6/4”. In theory, if appropriate in a mathematical discussion, one could say {wa’ loch wej} “three one–ths”. (Though perhaps a little grammatically aberrant, this would not be {wa’ luloch wej}.))>> -- De'vID
Okay, the weird thing is that {wej loch cha’} is grammatically, a complete sentence. So, “2/3” is a complete sentence. wejpuH. So, how do you USE this complete sentence within another complete sentence? Dujmeymaj wej lochbogh cha’ Qaw’ta’ jagh? Dujmeymaj’e’ Qaw'bogh jagh toghmeH wej loch cha’? I don’t see how to use it grammatically like a number, or an adjective to apply it to a noun, which is generally what we want to apply it to. I get the feeling that this is like speech or like comparisons, in that it involves some special grammar we have not been introduced to yet. charghwI’ ‘utlh (ghaH, ghaH, -Daj)
On Apr 23, 2021, at 4:44 PM, De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 23 Apr 2021 at 17:06, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com <mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com>> wrote: Sojvam vIQulqa'ta', 'ej 'op Ca'Non mu'tlhegh tu'lu', 'a napchu' mu'tlheghmeyvam:
wej loch cha' vagh loch wej loS loch jav wa' loch wej
Do'Ha' QaHlaHbe' mu'tlheghmeyvam.
The original text is here: https://www.kli.org/activities/qepmey/qepa-chamah-javdich/qepa-chamah-javdic... <https://www.kli.org/activities/qepmey/qepa-chamah-javdich/qepa-chamah-javdich-canon/> <<{wej loch cha’} “2/3”; {vagh loch wej} “3/5”; {loS loch jav} “6/4”. In theory, if appropriate in a mathematical discussion, one could say {wa’ loch wej} “three one–ths”. (Though perhaps a little grammatically aberrant, this would not be {wa’ luloch wej}.))>>
-- De'vID _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
On 4/23/2021 5:18 PM, Will Martin wrote:
Okay, the weird thing is that {wej loch cha’} is grammatically, a complete sentence. So, “2/3” is a complete sentence.
wejpuH.
So, how do you USE this complete sentence within another complete sentence?
Dujmeymaj wej lochbogh cha’ Qaw’ta’ jagh?
Dujmeymaj’e’ Qaw'bogh jagh toghmeH wej loch cha’?
I don’t see how to use it grammatically like a number, or an adjective to apply it to a noun, which is generally what we want to apply it to.
I get the feeling that this is like speech or like comparisons, in that it involves some special grammar we have not been introduced to yet.
Who said it's supposed to be used within another complete sentence? We have things like *wej boq cha'*/two plus three/ which aren't themselves used inside other sentences; why should *wej loch cha'* do so? The difference between *wej boq cha'* and *wej loch cha'* is that *wej boq cha'* has a response: *chen vagh.* *wej loch cha'* has no equivalent response, unless it's *chen pagh vI' jav jav jav 'ej reH taH javmey.* But neither form is directly usable in another sentence, and no one has complained about *wej boq cha'* before. I would not be at all surprised if the way to say /two-thirds of a pie/ were *wej lochbogh cha' chab.* But we don't know that. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
participants (5)
-
De'vID -
Ed Bailey -
mayqel qunen'oS -
SuStel -
Will Martin