I am curious about the etymology of {De'wI'} ("computer"). {De'} is a noun meaning "data." {-wI'} is, of course, both a noun suffix ('my") and a verb suffix ("thing which does"). Normally, I would expect a noun to to take a nouns suffix. That would make {De'wI'} "my data," hardly a likely translation of "computer." It seems, rather, that the noun {De'} is taking the verb suffix, making it "thing which... datas (?)." Is that, in fact, what is happening here? If so, are there other known cases of nouns taking verb suffixes, or of verbs taking noun suffixes? {jIwuQchoH} Sent from Qo'noS
Newb here.. but your speculation of computer reminds me of ra'wI'wI or commanding officer.. would that be in the same realm as your De'wI computer? On Sat, Oct 3, 2020, 11:37 AM SCOTT <amavocet@comcast.net> wrote:
I am curious about the etymology of {De'wI'} ("computer"). {De'} is a noun meaning "data." {-wI'} is, of course, both a noun suffix ('my") and a verb suffix ("thing which does").
Normally, I would expect a noun to to take a nouns suffix. That would make {De'wI'} "my data," hardly a likely translation of "computer."
It seems, rather, that the noun {De'} is taking the verb suffix, making it "thing which... datas (?)." Is that, in fact, what is happening here? If so, are there other known cases of nouns taking verb suffixes, or of verbs taking noun suffixes?
{jIwuQchoH}
Sent from Qo'noS_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
On 10/3/2020 12:37 PM, SCOTT wrote:
I am curious about the etymology of {De'wI'} ("computer"). {De'} is a noun meaning "data." {-wI'} is, of course, both a noun suffix ('my") and a verb suffix ("thing which does").
Normally, I would expect a noun to to take a nouns suffix. That would make {De'wI'} "my data," hardly a likely translation of "computer."
It seems, rather, that the noun {De'} is taking the verb suffix, making it "thing which... datas (?)." Is that, in fact, what is happening here? If so, are there other known cases of nouns taking verb suffixes, or of verbs taking noun suffixes?
A similar word is *DeghwI'*/helmsman,/ which makes one really want to translate *Degh* as /helm (v),/ but we have no such word. Likewise, *De'wI'* /computer/ makes one want to translate *De'* as /compute (v),/ but we also have no such word. See TKD section 3.2.3 "Other complex nouns" for why we can't analyze these nouns this way. We can't do the etymological research called for because Klingons aren't real. I wonder if the Old Klingon text in /paq'batlh/ has any illuminating examples of such words. This would be an interesting philological study... -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
On Oct 3, 2020, at 12:37 PM, SCOTT <amavocet@comcast.net> wrote:
I am curious about the etymology of {De'wI'} ("computer").
All we have is a hypothesized obsolete verb meaning something like “process information”.
It seems, rather, that the noun {De'} is taking the verb suffix, making it "thing which... datas (?)." Is that, in fact, what is happening here?
If that’s what is happening here, it is an anomaly and should not be treated as productive grammar. It’s more likely that there used to be a verb {De'} that is not currently used by itself.
If so, are there other known cases of nouns taking verb suffixes, or of verbs taking noun suffixes?
There is another word that parallels {De'wI'} perfectly: {DeghwI'} “helmsman”. There’s no regular verb {Degh} “steer, pilot”, just a slang usage meaning “improvise, act without a plan”. The noun for “bed”, {QongDaq}, looks like a verb with a noun suffix. However, we’ve been told that it’s actually a reduced form of {QongmeH Daq} “place for sleeping”. -- ghunchu'wI'
Or it might be completely unrelated to any suffix. In English, adding -er gives us "someone or something which does the verb it is attached to", very similar to the verb suffix -wI'. Shoot - shooter Wash - washer Does a brother broth? Does another anoth? The -wI' on words like computer and helmsman could just simply happen to look like the suffix -wI'. - DloraH
Before a room becomes disheveled, is it sheveled? Is it heveled? Before a conversation is disrupted, is it rupted? Also, if a conversation can be interrupted, does that imply that it could be extrarupted? or intrarupted? The word “tone” has the words “to”, “ton”, and “one” in it. Does that mean that “tone” was derived from some combination of these meanings? Etymology requires history, and we rarely get a glimpse of the history of Klingon words. My favorite false etymology was that “bit” came from the dragoon, also known as “pieces of eight” because it was a coin with eight crimps on it, like a pre-sliced pizza, so that it could be easily broken into halves, quarters, or eighths. An eight of a dragoon was known as a “bit” because it was 1/8 of a dragoon and you couldn’t break it down any smaller. Hence “Shave and a haircut, two bits” meaning that it cost a quarter (25¢), since a dragoon was also known as a dollar and two eighths is 1/4. The computer word “bit” similarly describes something that is 1/8 of a byte; something that cannot be broken down any smaller… All that makes sense, but apparently “bit” is just something some guy made up with no reference to pieces of eight, dragoons or dollars, as a perversely arbitrary abbreviation of “Binary digIT”. I REALLY WANT IT TO HAVE COME FROM PIECES OF EIGHT. Unfortunately, more authoritative voices insist that the less interesting story wins. charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.
On Oct 4, 2020, at 8:10 PM, DloraH <seruq@bellsouth.net> wrote:
Or it might be completely unrelated to any suffix.
In English, adding -er gives us "someone or something which does the verb it is attached to", very similar to the verb suffix -wI'.
Shoot - shooter Wash - washer
Does a brother broth? Does another anoth?
The -wI' on words like computer and helmsman could just simply happen to look like the suffix -wI'.
- DloraH
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participants (6)
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Alan Anderson -
DloraH -
SCOTT -
SuStel -
Tyler Jacobs -
Will Martin