Check his "Font/typeface" message. On Sat, 2018-02-17 at 12:58 +0200, mayqel qunenoS wrote:

'oqranD:

...

“Pronunciation” could be {QIch wab Ho’DoS}, more literally (but awkwardly) “speech-sound manner, speech-sound technique.”

So, this means that {Ho'DoS} means "technique/manner" ?

~ nI'ghma _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org

Ah, interesting; I've always assumed that the word {Sar} meant "variety" in the sense of "diversity", rather than "variant". Now I'll have to rethink my use of the phrase {belmoH Sar}. Perhaps {belmoH SartaHghach.} would be preferable? //loghaD ________________________________ From: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org> on behalf of De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 22:20 To: tlhIngan-Hol Subject: Re: [tlhIngan Hol] info from Maltz: pronunciation On 17 February 2018 at 07:35, De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com<mailto:de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com>> wrote: --- begin quote --- TKD glosses {QIch} as "speech (vocal sounds)." The notation "(vocal sounds)" is intended to denote that "speech" here means the phenomenon of speech as opposed to an address or oration - that's {SoQ}. So {QIch} doesn't refer to individual speech sounds or speech sounds collectively. An individual speech sound is {QIch wab} and speech sounds collectively are {QIch wabmey}. "Pronunciation" could be {QIch wab Ho'DoS}, more literally (but awkwardly) "speech-sound manner, speech-sound technique." --- end quote --- A bit more on languages: --- begin quote --- An "accent" might be {QIch wab Ho'DoS Sar} "pronunciation variety." A "regional accent" would then be {Sep QIch wab Ho'DoS} or {Sep QIch wab Sar} or {Sep QIch wab Ho'DoS Sar}. ("Dialect," by the way, would be {Hol Sar}; "regional dialect" is {Sep Hol Sar}.) -- end quote --- -- De'vID

On Sun, 25 Feb 2018 at 22:27, Felix Malmenbeck <felixm@kth.se> wrote:

Ah, interesting; I've always assumed that the word {Sar} meant "variety" in the sense of "diversity", rather than "variant". Now I'll have to rethink my use of the phrase {belmoH Sar}. Perhaps {belmoH SartaHghach.} would be preferable?

I've received some more information about {Sar}. For context, Maltz was helping me with the translations of some UI strings for {boQwI'}, and in particular, I asked him about the following potentially ambiguous phrases: {ngutlh Sar buSHa'} "ignore written-character variety", but also "ignore various written-characters" {potlhbe' ngutlh Sar} "written-character variety isn't important", but also "various written-characters aren't important" {QIch wab Ho'DoS Sar} "pronunciation variety", but also "various pronunciations" This was his reply: --- begin quote --- Maltz says that, in context, the sentences you asked about are clear, but he agrees that there could be ambiguity. He suggested using {DI'on} "characteristic, trait" instead of the noun {Sar} when referring to cases (upper/lower). {DI’on} can also be translated as "style" (in the sense of "distinctive appearance," not in the sense of "elegance, sophistication, pizazz," etc.). So: {ngutlh DI'on busHa'} "ignore the written-character trait/style" (that is, "ignore case") {ngutlh DI'onmey buSHa'} "ignore written-character traits/styles" (that is, "ignore cases") {DI'on} would not be used for the various ways of referring to accents, however. For that, he stuck with {Sar}. He said that although {QIch wab Ho'DoS Sar} in isolation may be ambiguous, you can clarify things by using {-mey}: {QIch wab Ho'DoS Sarmey} "pronunciation varieties" (that is, "accents") {QIch wab Ho'DoS Sar} "pronunciation variety/varieties" (that is, "accent(s)"). As with other things, context will determine whether the noun {Sar} is best translated as singular or plural. Context will also determine whether {Sar} is a noun or verb here; read on. With {Sar} as a singular noun, the phrase {QIch wab Ho'DoS Sar} "accent" would probably be used only if the type of accent were indicated: {Qotmagh QIch wab Ho'DoS Sar} "Krotmag accent," {QIch wab Ho'DoS Sar Huj} "strange accent." To say {QIch wab Ho'DoS Sar vIQoy} "I hear an accent" (with no further information or context) would be odd since everyone speaks with an accent; {QIch wab Ho'DoS Sar Huj vIQoy} "I hear a strange accent" is fine. (Of course, {QIch wab Ho'DoS Sar Huj vIQoy} could also mean "I hear strange accents" — also fine.) As for the verb {Sar}… {QIch wab Ho'DoSmey Sar} means "varied pronunciations." {QIch wab Ho'DoS} in the phrase {QIch wab Ho'DoS Sar} would normally be interpreted as plural: {QIch wab Ho'DoS Sar vIQoy} "I hear varied pronunciations" (that is, "I hear accents"). A singular interpretation of {QIch wab Ho'DoS} is possible if the intent is to say that someone's pronunciation exhibited different varieties — different accents: {QIch wab Ho'DoS Sar vIQoy} "I hear a varied pronunciation, a pronunciation with different or inconsistent features." But this is unusual, something only somebody like Henry Higgins would say, and would probably be made clear by context. And if it wasn’t clear, Professor Higgins would probably use a different verb altogether: {ngang} "vary, be varying." This verb is used to express that something is varying or deviating from the norm or is varying or fluctuating so much that there isn’t a norm. (If the readouts on certain instruments on a ship did this, that would probably be bad news.) So… even though the grammatical status of {Sar} might be different — in certain contexts, it could be a noun or a verb — the general meaning is roughly the same. (If "we" are the ones doing the hearing, the grammatical ambiguity remains — is {Sar} a noun or a verb? -- but there's even less potential meaning confusion: {QIch wab Ho'DoS Sar DIQoy} "we hear varied pronunciations / we hear accents"; {QIch wab Ho'DoS Sar wIQoy} "we hear a varied pronunciation." This could also mean "we hear an accent," but, as above, this would be unusual. One would be more likely to hear something along the lines of {QIch wab Ho'DoS Sar Huj wIQoy}"we hear a strange accent.") (By the way — note that the noun {Sar} means "variety" in the sense of "an interesting variety of tea," not "variety is the spice of life.") (By the way #2 – the word for "pronounce" is {qol}. You’d use this, for example, to ask how to pronounce a word: {chay’ mu’vam qollu’?} "How is this word pronounced?" {qol} refers to articulation; it does not mean "pronounce" in the sense of "proclaim, declare, decree." ) --- end quote --- -- De'vID

On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 at 16:48, Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu> wrote:

Possible pun: The noun *qol* in Hebrew means "voice", e.g. 1 Kings 19:12 *qol d'mamah daqah* "still, small voice" or, spelled with a K, *Kol Yisrael*, Israel's public radio service. As a Klingon verb {chay’ mu’vam qollu’} would mean something like "How is this word voiced?"

It's also this guy's name: http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Kol_(Klingon) -- De'vID

On Wed, 16 Jan 2019 at 17:27, Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu> wrote:

Does the character (or actor) have an unusual accent or pronunciation?

Not in particular. I just pointed it out because other names have also coincided with words, e.g., {Qugh}, {mogh}. It makes me wonder about what their parents were thinking, to name their kids {Qugh} or {mogh}. (It also makes me wonder why Okrand decided that {Qugh} is both "Kruge" and "disaster". I think the TNG writers made up "Mogh", though, and I wonder if they looked up the word in the dictionary first.) -- De'vID