Thought I would let people here know, since I have sort of acted on my own on this. I've submitted another paper to the Unicode Consortium asking to encode pIqaD finally: http://www.unicode.org/L2/L2016/16329-piqad-returns.pdf They always said it wasn't encoded because people weren't using it: I disprove that claim in the document. The discussion on the mailing list there is starting to heat up again; this time they're saying that there are problems with Paramount's copyright and all, but that's also not relevant, and even if it is, they should decide whether or not to encode and *then* we'll worry about difficulties carrying that out. Anyway, just informing folks. I've been talking to various UTC members, and the official UTC meeting is this week or next week or something, so it will be brought up then and they'll probably have at least some sort of response after that. I'm not going to let them off the hook without at least some *sensible* answer and a path forward (and an explanation as to why the Tolkien alphabets, which apparently may also have copyright issues, are on the Roadmap, even if they aren't encoded, while pIqaD is not only not on the roadmap, but given as an example on the "Not on the Roadmap" page as something not worthy of being there.) Just FYI. ~mark
My only issue is that you have the script name listed as "Klingon" and not "pIqaD". I would have also mentioned the full page in Metro Ottowa http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/MetroOttawa I brought up the topic of pIqaD and Unicode back in April on facebook (because I could attach pictures). https://www.facebook.com/groups/LearnKlingon/permalink/995680640540152/ The comments may be of interest to some. Hopefully pIqaD will get approved and we can move forward. Keep us posted! On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 8:16 PM, Mark Shoulson <mark@kli.org> wrote:
Thought I would let people here know, since I have sort of acted on my own on this. I've submitted another paper to the Unicode Consortium asking to encode pIqaD finally: http://www.unicode.org/L2/L201 6/16329-piqad-returns.pdf They always said it wasn't encoded because people weren't using it: I disprove that claim in the document. The discussion on the mailing list there is starting to heat up again; this time they're saying that there are problems with Paramount's copyright and all, but that's also not relevant, and even if it is, they should decide whether or not to encode and *then* we'll worry about difficulties carrying that out.
Anyway, just informing folks. I've been talking to various UTC members, and the official UTC meeting is this week or next week or something, so it will be brought up then and they'll probably have at least some sort of response after that. I'm not going to let them off the hook without at least some *sensible* answer and a path forward (and an explanation as to why the Tolkien alphabets, which apparently may also have copyright issues, are on the Roadmap, even if they aren't encoded, while pIqaD is not only not on the roadmap, but given as an example on the "Not on the Roadmap" page as something not worthy of being there.) Just FYI.
~mark
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-- ~Michael Roney, Jr. Freelance Translator
Am 08.11.2016 um 21:22 schrieb Michael Roney, Jr.:
I would have also mentioned the full page in Metro Ottowa http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/MetroOttawa
There are even many more if you look closely. Here's a list, which is still not complete: http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/PIqaD I really hope that one day, it may become an official use. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka Quvar valer 'utlh Grammarian of the KLI http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher http://www.klingonwiki.net
Lovely! I'd recommend adding some more examples of use by the Klingon-speaking community and random folks, rather than focusing CBS/Paramount sources. After all, we've been using this writing system since before it was cool, and it makes the argument that there's a community behind it, rather than just a company. To name some examples: Every day, chaDQI posts original pIqaD calligraphy on Instagram, normally tagged #klingonshodo: https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/klingonshodo/ Every day, qurgh's Klingon Word of the Day on Facebook supplies pIqaD transliterations for all words. The Misfit Shine has product details written in pIqaD: https://techcrunch.com/2014/04/20/the-secret-is-klingon/ The app sBASSdrum had a press release written in pIqaD: http://www.seqmedia.com/projects/sbassdrum/sBASSdrum_Klingon_PressRelease_20... People have been playing Scrabble using pIqaD for more than a decade: 2004 source: http://www.lillsjon.net/~v108e/swecon.html More recent source: http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/Scrabble ...and now there's also Bananagrams: https://twitter.com/Bananagrams_uk/status/525971513229725696 ...and at least two versions of 2048: iOS: https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10363505_10152422262290120_215... HTML5: https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10363505_10152422262290120_215... I've collected quite a few examples - large and small - using the Twitter account @pIqaD: https://twitter.com/pIqaD //loghaD ________________________________________ From: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org> on behalf of Mark Shoulson <mark@kli.org> Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2016 02:16 To: tlhIngan-Hol@kli.org Subject: [tlhIngan Hol] pIqaD in Unicode--again Thought I would let people here know, since I have sort of acted on my own on this. I've submitted another paper to the Unicode Consortium asking to encode pIqaD finally: http://www.unicode.org/L2/L2016/16329-piqad-returns.pdf They always said it wasn't encoded because people weren't using it: I disprove that claim in the document. The discussion on the mailing list there is starting to heat up again; this time they're saying that there are problems with Paramount's copyright and all, but that's also not relevant, and even if it is, they should decide whether or not to encode and *then* we'll worry about difficulties carrying that out. Anyway, just informing folks. I've been talking to various UTC members, and the official UTC meeting is this week or next week or something, so it will be brought up then and they'll probably have at least some sort of response after that. I'm not going to let them off the hook without at least some *sensible* answer and a path forward (and an explanation as to why the Tolkien alphabets, which apparently may also have copyright issues, are on the Roadmap, even if they aren't encoded, while pIqaD is not only not on the roadmap, but given as an example on the "Not on the Roadmap" page as something not worthy of being there.) Just FYI. ~mark _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
loghaD:
I went to that link, but I see a lot of squares, where some characters ought to be. Is there a fix for this ? qunnoH jan puqloD On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 10:37 PM, Felix Malmenbeck <felixm@kth.se> wrote:
Lovely!
I'd recommend adding some more examples of use by the Klingon-speaking community and random folks, rather than focusing CBS/Paramount sources. After all, we've been using this writing system since before it was cool, and it makes the argument that there's a community behind it, rather than just a company.
To name some examples:
Every day, chaDQI posts original pIqaD calligraphy on Instagram, normally tagged #klingonshodo: https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/klingonshodo/
Every day, qurgh's Klingon Word of the Day on Facebook supplies pIqaD transliterations for all words.
The Misfit Shine has product details written in pIqaD: https://techcrunch.com/2014/04/20/the-secret-is-klingon/
The app sBASSdrum had a press release written in pIqaD: http://www.seqmedia.com/projects/sbassdrum/sBASSdrum_Klingon_PressRelease_20...
People have been playing Scrabble using pIqaD for more than a decade: 2004 source: http://www.lillsjon.net/~v108e/swecon.html More recent source: http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/Scrabble
...and now there's also Bananagrams: https://twitter.com/Bananagrams_uk/status/525971513229725696
...and at least two versions of 2048: iOS: https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10363505_10152422262290120_215... HTML5: https://scontent-arn2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10363505_10152422262290120_215...
I've collected quite a few examples - large and small - using the Twitter account @pIqaD: https://twitter.com/pIqaD
//loghaD
________________________________________ From: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org> on behalf of Mark Shoulson <mark@kli.org> Sent: Tuesday, November 8, 2016 02:16 To: tlhIngan-Hol@kli.org Subject: [tlhIngan Hol] pIqaD in Unicode--again
Thought I would let people here know, since I have sort of acted on my own on this. I've submitted another paper to the Unicode Consortium asking to encode pIqaD finally: http://www.unicode.org/L2/L2016/16329-piqad-returns.pdf They always said it wasn't encoded because people weren't using it: I disprove that claim in the document. The discussion on the mailing list there is starting to heat up again; this time they're saying that there are problems with Paramount's copyright and all, but that's also not relevant, and even if it is, they should decide whether or not to encode and *then* we'll worry about difficulties carrying that out.
Anyway, just informing folks. I've been talking to various UTC members, and the official UTC meeting is this week or next week or something, so it will be brought up then and they'll probably have at least some sort of response after that. I'm not going to let them off the hook without at least some *sensible* answer and a path forward (and an explanation as to why the Tolkien alphabets, which apparently may also have copyright issues, are on the Roadmap, even if they aren't encoded, while pIqaD is not only not on the roadmap, but given as an example on the "Not on the Roadmap" page as something not worthy of being there.) Just FYI.
~mark
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
On Thursday 10 Nov 2016 09:18:27 mayqel qunenoS wrote:
loghaD:
I went to that link, but I see a lot of squares, where some characters ought to be. Is there a fix for this ?
You would, I guess, need to have a font installed which comes with with the unicode characters mapped to the correct locations. See the "Unicode mapping" part: http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/Fonts Also found a windows help guide, (which may have information transferable to another OS): https://www.kli.org/wiki/Using_pIqaD_in_Windows HTH, mupwI'
On 11/10/2016 5:34 AM, Jeremy Silver wrote:
On Thursday 10 Nov 2016 09:18:27 mayqel qunenoS wrote:
loghaD:
I went to that link, but I see a lot of squares, where some characters ought to be. Is there a fix for this ?
You would, I guess, need to have a font installed which comes with with the unicode characters mapped to the correct locations.
And of course, by "correct locations" you mean the Private Use Area commonly associated with *pIqaD.* If *pIqaD* is accepted into Unicode, it'll use different code points, and everyone will have to make new fonts again. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 2:18 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
loghaD:
I went to that link, but I see a lot of squares, where some characters ought to be. Is there a fix for this ?
qunnoH jan puqloD
The front page of http://hol.kag.org/ has everything you need to see those characters properly. If you're on Windows 7/8 just download the installer and you should be able to see pIqaD in IE and Windows itself (file names etc). If you have Windows 10 download the installer and the registry file, and then you should be able to see pIqaD in IE/Edge and Windows. Getting it working in Chrome or Firefox requires some extra steps. qurgh
qatlho' qurgh, 'a mac osx vIlo'taH.. qay'wI'vam tI'meH mIw tu'lu'a' ? qunnoH jan puqloD On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 5:29 PM, qurgh lungqIj <qurgh@wizage.net> wrote:
On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 2:18 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
loghaD:
I went to that link, but I see a lot of squares, where some characters ought to be. Is there a fix for this ?
qunnoH jan puqloD
The front page of http://hol.kag.org/ has everything you need to see those characters properly. If you're on Windows 7/8 just download the installer and you should be able to see pIqaD in IE and Windows itself (file names etc). If you have Windows 10 download the installer and the registry file, and then you should be able to see pIqaD in IE/Edge and Windows. Getting it working in Chrome or Firefox requires some extra steps.
qurgh
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jISovbe', MacOSX vIlo'be'. qurgh On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 11:15 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
qatlho' qurgh, 'a mac osx vIlo'taH.. qay'wI'vam tI'meH mIw tu'lu'a' ?
qunnoH jan puqloD
On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 5:29 PM, qurgh lungqIj <qurgh@wizage.net> wrote:
On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 2:18 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
loghaD:
I went to that link, but I see a lot of squares, where some characters ought to be. Is there a fix for this ?
qunnoH jan puqloD
The front page of http://hol.kag.org/ has everything you need to see those characters properly. If you're on Windows 7/8 just download the installer and you should be able to see pIqaD in IE and Windows itself (file names etc). If you have Windows 10 download the installer and the registry file, and then you should be able to see pIqaD in IE/Edge and Windows. Getting it working in Chrome or Firefox requires some extra steps.
qurgh
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
On 11/10/2016 11:15 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
qatlho' qurgh, 'a mac osx vIlo'taH.. qay'wI'vam tI'meH mIw tu'lu'a' ?
You should be able to read the text if you download and install the Code2000 font <http://www.fonts2u.com/code2000.font>. This does not give you the tools to write in *pIqaD,* only to read it in programs that can make use of the font. You could probably insert characters from the Character Palette, but that would be very tedious. What qurgh is pointing to is a Windows-only keyboard mapping for *pIqaD,* which allows you to change keyboard language and localization so the keys point to custom characters rather than the standard ones. He also provides a *pIqaD* font. His program also allows the Windows operating system to make use of *pIqaD.* -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
SuStel:
You should be able to read the text if you download and install
maj. tugh mIwvam vIwaH. qunnoq jan puqloD On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 7:00 PM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
On 11/10/2016 11:15 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
qatlho' qurgh, 'a mac osx vIlo'taH.. qay'wI'vam tI'meH mIw tu'lu'a' ?
You should be able to read the text if you download and install the Code2000 font. This does not give you the tools to write in pIqaD, only to read it in programs that can make use of the font. You could probably insert characters from the Character Palette, but that would be very tedious.
What qurgh is pointing to is a Windows-only keyboard mapping for pIqaD, which allows you to change keyboard language and localization so the keys point to custom characters rather than the standard ones. He also provides a pIqaD font. His program also allows the Windows operating system to make use of pIqaD.
-- SuStel http://trimboli.name
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Talking about pIqaD... has anyone ever seen this Klingon keyboard made by Cherry, which was announced in 2007 or 2009? When searching the web I only find one promotional image, so it makes me think it's fake or maybe was an aprils fool? Anyone ever seen this? -- Lieven L. Litaer aka Quvar valer 'utlh Grammarian of the KLI http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/KlingonKeyboard
A direct link from an online article brought up a 404 error,but there is a "Klingon & Language Details" menu item (URLbelow), though it too brings up a 404 error. I'm thinking they were serious about it (timing of some articlesappears to be January, not April) but maybe there was no realinterest, so they gave up... http://www.cherrykeyboardsrus.co.uk/Klingon&Language-Details.htm -- //*================================================================++|| Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 |||| 847-952-9729 RussPerryJr@sbcglobal.net VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! ||++================================================================*// From: Lieven <levinius@gmx.de> To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org Sent: Thursday, November 10, 2016 2:26 PM Subject: [tlhIngan Hol] Klingon Keyboard Talking about pIqaD... has anyone ever seen this Klingon keyboard made by Cherry, which was announced in 2007 or 2009? When searching the web I only find one promotional image, so it makes me think it's fake or maybe was an aprils fool? Anyone ever seen this? -- Lieven L. Litaer aka Quvar valer 'utlh Grammarian of the KLI http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/KlingonKeyboard _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
Am 10.11.2016 um 21:35 schrieb Russ Perry, Jr.:
A direct link from an online article brought up a 404 error, but there is a "Klingon & Language Details" menu item (URL below), though it too brings up a 404 error.
If you're interested, I've added the archive (working) link to the Wiki: http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/KlingonKeyboard -- Lieven L. Litaer aka Quvar valer 'utlh Grammarian of the KLI http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher http://www.klingonwiki.net
naHQun blogged about this keyboard back in 2009: http://nahqun.blogspot.com/2009/02/klingon-keyboard-tlh-kli.html qurgh On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 3:26 PM, Lieven <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
Talking about pIqaD... has anyone ever seen this Klingon keyboard made by Cherry, which was announced in 2007 or 2009? When searching the web I only find one promotional image, so it makes me think it's fake or maybe was an aprils fool?
Anyone ever seen this?
-- Lieven L. Litaer aka Quvar valer 'utlh Grammarian of the KLI http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/KlingonKeyboard
On 8 November 2016 at 02:16, Mark Shoulson <mark@kli.org> wrote:
Thought I would let people here know, since I have sort of acted on my own on this. I've submitted another paper to the Unicode Consortium asking to encode pIqaD finally: http://www.unicode.org/L2/L2016/16329-piqad-returns.pdf They always said it wasn't encoded because people weren't using it: I disprove that claim in the document. The discussion on the mailing list there is starting to heat up again; this time they're saying that there are problems with Paramount's copyright and all, but that's also not relevant, and even if it is, they should decide whether or not to encode and *then* we'll worry about difficulties carrying that out.
Anyway, just informing folks. I've been talking to various UTC members, and the official UTC meeting is this week or next week or something, so it will be brought up then and they'll probably have at least some sort of response after that. I'm not going to let them off the hook without at least some *sensible* answer and a path forward (and an explanation as to why the Tolkien alphabets, which apparently may also have copyright issues, are on the Roadmap, even if they aren't encoded, while pIqaD is not only not on the roadmap, but given as an example on the "Not on the Roadmap" page as something not worthy of being there.) Just FYI.
I have some info about this: * the proposal missed the deadline for the November meeting, but is on the agenda for the January one * the good news is that the committee considers the evidence of use for Klingon is now sufficient * the rest of the proposal is in good shape (other than lack of a date), only the IP stands in the way * Tengwar was added to the roadmap before IP issues arose; adding Klingon to the roadmap has no real effect while IP issues are unresolved * their recommendation is that the Klingon community work towards getting the IP owners to engage with them to settle the IP issues (that's your path forward) So... who can take this on? -- De'vID
participants (10)
-
De'vID -
Felix Malmenbeck -
Jeremy Silver -
Lieven -
Mark Shoulson -
mayqel qunenoS -
Michael Roney, Jr. -
qurgh lungqIj -
Russ Perry, Jr. -
SuStel