If I write {Ha'DIbaHHom} will you understand a. little animal in size b. little animal in age or both ? mop qIj qunnoq
On 8/9/2016 12:07 PM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
If I write {Ha'DIbaHHom} will you understand
a. little animal in size b. little animal in age or both ?
Or neither? I'd understand it as something lesser than or less important than an animal. Exactly what that would be, I don't know. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
For me not lesser than an animal, but a lesser animal is what I'd understand. A mouse, a fly, a sparrow... some animal a Klingon wouldn't even notice. Usually a small one, that doesn't harm and might not even be edible. I would not understand it as a young animal. - André On 9 Aug 2016 23:02, "SuStel" <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
On 8/9/2016 12:07 PM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
If I write {Ha'DIbaHHom} will you understand
a. little animal in size b. little animal in age or both ?
Or neither?
I'd understand it as something lesser than or less important than an animal. Exactly what that would be, I don't know.
-- SuStel http://trimboli.name
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As usual, context is key. I would not think "young" unless context made it clear that we were discussing the ages of animals. Perhaps hunting season is upon us, and the prey have to be a certain age in order for us to kill them. {loDHom} does mean "boy" afterall. Is a boy a small man, a young man, a lesser man? What about a midget? Is a midget not a {loDHom}? I could also see two people camping, one of them is new to camping. They hear a rustling in the brush, and the camper who knows the area informs the newcomer that it's a {Ha'DIbaHHom}, and not to worry about it. ~naHQun
Focus more on the issue of significance when using -'a' or -Hom. Magnitude isn't just about size, but often connotes importance or relevance.
ghItlh 'angghal:
Focus more on the issue of significance when using -'a' or -Hom. Magnitude isn't just about size, but often connotes importance or relevance.
I would add the note that significance, importance, and relavence are often related to size, especially in the Klingon mind. Without further context, the first image that pops into my head would, indeed, be a small animal (whether because of species, age, or anomaly). However, translating the {-Hom} suffix as "small" is a bad habit to get into. If I saw a targh which stood taller at the shoulders than the average, but was old and weak and had no teeth, I would happily refer to it as a Ha'DIbaHHom. janSIy
On 8/9/2016 12:54 PM, Michael Roney, Jr. wrote:
As usual, context is key.
I would not think "young" unless context made it clear that we were discussing the ages of animals. Perhaps hunting season is upon us, and the prey have to be a certain age in order for us to kill them. {loDHom} does mean "boy" afterall. Is a boy a small man, a young man, a lesser man? What about a midget? Is a midget not a {loDHom}?
I could also see two people camping, one of them is new to camping. They hear a rustling in the brush, and the camper who knows the area informs the newcomer that it's a {Ha'DIbaHHom}, and not to worry about it.
ghIlab ghewmey tIbuSQo'! Also important is that *-Hom* is not necessarily always an ad hoc suffix. A *loDHom* is exactly one thing: a boy. Not a small man, not a man of lesser status. It has been lexicalized. A *Qa'Hom* is not a small *Qa',* but a completely different animal. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
qunnoq :
If I write {Ha'DIbaHHom} will you understand
a. little animal in size b. little animal in age or both ?
Without any other information, I would understand option (a). (TKD 21): [{-Hom} (diminutive)] is the opposite of the augmentative suffix [{-'a'}]. It indicates that what the noun refers to is smaller, less important, or less powerful than it would be without the suffix. Note the absence of "younger". The examples given in TKD all make sense as "smaller, less important": {be'Hom} girl; {loDHom} boy; {juHHom} shack; {lupDujHom} shuttlecraft; {mangHom} cadet; {nuHHom} small arms; {SuSHom} wisp of air; {rojHom} truce, temporary peace; {QaghHom} minor error; {vengHom} village; {yuQHom} planetoid -- all make sense Of course, children and young animals are usually "smaller, less important, or less powerful" than the adult forms but youth is not implied by the suffix per se. In fact, Okrand once dismissed this: (KCD; cf. HQ 5.1:20): A {Qa'Hom} ["titmouse"] is not a young {Qa'}, but it does bear a vague resemblance to its namesake. Some more examples: (st.klingon 10/1998): Qov's suggestion, {QelHom} [for medic, paramedic, etc.], consisting of {Qel} "doctor" plus the diminutive suffix {-Hom}, is also an acceptable form (and is an excellent illustration of the diminutive suffix - the word means "not quite a doctor" or "lesser doctor" or the like). tlhIngan toQDujHom 'oH It's a [little] Klingon Bird of Prey ornament. (Hallmark) "a little Bird of Prey" - i.e. a Christmas tree ornament with... Qapqu' wovmoHbogh janHommey It even has working lights! (Hallmark) (st.k 6/97): That is, "little devices that cause (something) to be light or bright" or "little devices that brighten (something)" or "little devices that light (something) up" or the like. bo'DaghHom lo' use a little scoop KGT which is an idiom for "make less of something than it really is" or "minimize the importance of something") Okrand also discusses {-Hom} passim in KGT: (KGT 61): A spike is a {DuQwI'} and the small spikes on the d'k tahg [pommel] are usually called {DuQwI'Hommey} (little spikes)." (KGT 152): [{Hom} "weakling, runt, scrawny one, skinny one" (slang)] literally means bone, but its slang usage is no doubt influenced by the noun suffix {-Hom}, a diminutive that adds a meaning of smallness or lack of importance (compare {taj} [knife] and {tajHom} [little knife, the extra small blade in the handle of a d'k tahg knife]). There are a number of standard counterparts to {Hom}, such as {pujwI'} (weakling), {langwI'} (one who is thin), and {runwI'} (one who is short). (KGT 74-75): The general term for a percussion instrument of any kind is {'In}. ... Other members of this group of instruments are hit with a stick of some kind. The stick often resembles a small hammer; when it does, it is termed {mupwI'Hom} (literally, "small striker"). A plain stick is a {naQHom} (literally, "small cane" or "small staff"). Okrand has also used {-Hom} more imaginatively, in a non-literal sense: Ho'Du'lIjDaq to'baj 'uSHom lughoDlu'bogh tu'lu' You have some stuffed *tobbaj* leg in your teeth. PK i.e. "a little piece of *tobbaj* leg" beyHom bey bey'a' jachtaH latlh tlhInganpu' others [Klingons] roar in a great crescendo. S31 This one is my favorite: "minor howl, [regular] howl, major howl" = crescendo! -- Voragh tlhIngan ghantoH pIn'a' Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
participants (7)
-
André Müller -
David Holt -
Lawrence M. Schoen -
mayqel qunenoS -
Michael Roney, Jr. -
Steven Boozer -
SuStel