This obviously didn't come through when I had first sent it. pIch vIghajbe'. --- Maltz has revealed some words which I don't want to keep secret from you any longer. I'm sending them in individual messages to keep the subject line separated. ---begin quote------------ Perhaps the verb {patlh} "be ranked, have a status, be graded" will work. The form {patlhmoH} would mean "rank, assign status, sort" and also "compare." When used with the "compare" meaning, of course, the object of the verb is always plural. The implication that if two (or more) things are ranked or sorted, they're ranked in comparison to one another. ---end quote------------ -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.de http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/StarTrekDiscovery
On Tue, Feb 06, 2018 at 02:10:14PM +0100, Lieven L. Litaer wrote:
This obviously didn't come through when I had first sent it. pIch vIghajbe'. ---
Maltz has revealed some words which I don't want to keep secret from you any longer. I'm sending them in individual messages to keep the subject line separated.
---begin quote------------
Perhaps the verb {patlh} "be ranked, have a status, be graded" will work. The form {patlhmoH} would mean "rank, assign status, sort" and also "compare." When used with the "compare" meaning, of course, the object of the verb is always plural. The implication that if two (or more) things are ranked or sorted, they're ranked in comparison to one another.
---end quote------------
This, of course, immediately brings up a different question: if a teacher is grading exams, at first glance it seems that this verb would be appropriate. However, what happens if there's only one exam to be graded? Do {patlh} and {patlhmoH} imply "be ranked/have a status/be graded *with respect to other items/people*", or can they refer to a rank or status that exists on its own? It would make sense to use {chov} for what the teacher does to the students when they give the exam. Perhaps when they look at the exams later, they would {poj} them, and then {patlhmoH} the students from best to worst based on the results *if* there are multiple students. - SapIr
On 2/6/2018 3:31 PM, kechpaja wrote:
This, of course, immediately brings up a different question: if a teacher is grading exams, at first glance it seems that this verb would be appropriate. However, what happens if there's only one exam to be graded? Do {patlh} and {patlhmoH} imply "be ranked/have a status/be graded*with respect to other items/people*", or can they refer to a rank or status that exists on its own?
You're still giving it a rank according to an external measure. If I get a D, it means I'm ranked poorly compared to /hypothetical/ other students. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
On 2/6/2018 3:31 PM, kechpaja wrote:
This, of course, immediately brings up a different question: if a teacher is grading exams, at first glance it seems that this verb would be appropriate. However, what happens if there's only one exam to be graded? Do {patlh} and {patlhmoH} imply "be ranked/have a status/be graded*with respect to other items/people*", or can they refer to a rank or status that exists on its own?
Am 06.02.2018 um 21:44 schrieb SuStel:
You're still giving it a rank according to an external measure. If I get a D, it means I'm ranked poorly compared to /hypothetical/ other students.
Right. I asked Marc about that, and this is what he answered: --------------
What about "she has been ranked lieutenant"? Does it work like {pong}? {ghaHvaD Sogh patlhlu'}
For this, use the noun {patlh}: {Sogh 'oH patlhDaj'e'}
going from this, I see that {patlhmoH} could be used for a captain to grade/promote a person {wo'rIv patlhmoH HoD}. Make sense?
The sentence is fine. It means something like "The captain ranked Worf," that is, the captain made a judgment about how well Worf was doing or how valuable Worf was compared to someone else or to a group (or, I suppose, "The captain graded Worf"). -------------- -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.de http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/MarcOkrand
I see that {patlhmoH} could be used for a captain to grade/promote a person {wo'rIv patlhmoH HoD}. Make sense?
"Evaluate" would probably be a better translation here. Speaking from my time in the U.S. Navy - not to mention at the University of Chicago - everyone is formally evaluated ("graded" as it were) in writing once a year by their superior. Sometimes this is called a "performance review". This is not the same thing as a promotion, which is {num} "promote" in Klingon: Danumlu'. Sa' Damoj. Promoted to general. (MKE) --Voragh -----Original Message----- From: tlhIngan-Hol [mailto:tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org] On Behalf Of Lieven L. Litaer Am 06.02.2018 um 21:44 schrieb SuStel:
You're still giving it a rank according to an external measure. If I get a D, it means I'm ranked poorly compared to /hypothetical/ other students.
Right. I asked Marc about that, and this is what he answered: --------------
What about "she has been ranked lieutenant"? Does it work like {pong}? {ghaHvaD Sogh patlhlu'}
For this, use the noun {patlh}: {Sogh 'oH patlhDaj'e'}
going from this, I see that {patlhmoH} could be used for a captain to grade/promote a person {wo'rIv patlhmoH HoD}. Make sense?
The sentence is fine. It means something like "The captain ranked Worf," that is, the captain made a judgment about how well Worf was doing or how valuable Worf was compared to someone else or to a group (or, I suppose, "The captain graded Worf"). --------------
On 6 February 2018 at 14:10, Lieven L. Litaer <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
Maltz has revealed some words which I don't want to keep secret from you any longer. I'm sending them in individual messages to keep the subject line separated.
---begin quote------------
Perhaps the verb {patlh} "be ranked, have a status, be graded" will work. The form {patlhmoH} would mean "rank, assign status, sort" and also "compare." When used with the "compare" meaning, of course, the object of the verb is always plural. The implication that if two (or more) things are ranked or sorted, they're ranked in comparison to one another.
---end quote------------
I have also received some information from Maltz about sorting, related to features in development for {boQwI'}. --- begin quote --- “Be sorted” is {patlh}, which also means “have a rank of.” So “sort” is {patlhmoH}, also meaning “rank.” The object of {patlhmoH} is not a list (as a whole) but the things in the list, the things to be ranked or sorted. {Sal} and {ghIr} cannot be used for sort order. To sort a list of English words alphabetically (or reverse alphabetically), use constructions like {wa’DIch a, HochDIch z} or {wa’DIch z, HochDIch a}. For a list of Klingon words, it would be {wa’DIch bay, HochDIch qaghwI’}, {wa’DIch qaghwI’, HochDIch bay}. You’d use similar constructions to sort by date or whatever. I’m assuming that, for your purposes, you wouldn’t sort by anything other than something that can be put in a specific order – that is, not sorting by color, for example (maybe not such a good example, but I think you know what I mean). --- end quote --- And to the question of whether *{yoymoH} could be used for reversing a list, he replied: --- begin quote --- No. Use {DopmoH} "cause to be opposite." --- end quote --- -- De'vID
Is he saying {patlh} can also mean "compare" or {patlhmoH} can mean "compare"? The statement about "compare" comes right after {patlhmoH}, but it seems odd syntactically and it seems odd to say "of course, the object of the verb is plural." However, I could easily see {patlh} with a plural subject to mean, "they compare". Could you clarify? Jeremy From: Lieven L. Litaer Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 8:10 AM Subject: [tlhIngan Hol] Maltz about to compare To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org This obviously didn't come through when I had first sent it. pIch vIghajbe'. --- Maltz has revealed some words which I don't want to keep secret from you any longer. I'm sending them in individual messages to keep the subject line separated. ---begin quote------------ Perhaps the verb {patlh} "be ranked, have a status, be graded" will work. The form {patlhmoH} would mean "rank, assign status, sort" and also "compare." When used with the "compare" meaning, of course, the object of the verb is always plural. The implication that if two (or more) things are ranked or sorted, they're ranked in comparison to one another. ---end quote------------ -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.klingonisch.de http://www.klingonwiki.net/En/StarTrekDiscovery _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
On 16 February 2018 at 12:35, David Holt <kenjutsuka@live.com> wrote:
Is he saying {patlh} can also mean "compare" or {patlhmoH} can mean "compare"? The statement about "compare" comes right after {patlhmoH}, but it seems odd syntactically and it seems odd to say "of course, the object of the verb is plural."
However, I could easily see {patlh} with a plural subject to mean, "they compare". Could you clarify?
It seems pretty clear that he's saying {patlhmoH} means "compare" with the things to be compared listed as the object. -- De'vID
DopDaq qul yIchenmoH QobDI' ghu' Yeah. Never mind. I had just woken up and I guess my brain wasn't working right. It makes complete sense for the OBJECT of {patlhmoH} to be plural with the intent of comparing them. But for some reason my brain read that the SUBJECTS were being compared and that didn't make any sense at all. I'm a little more awake now and reading words correctly again. Jeremy ________________________________ From: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org> on behalf of De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> Sent: Friday, February 16, 2018 5:42 AM To: tlhIngan-Hol Subject: Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Maltz about to compare On 16 February 2018 at 12:35, David Holt <kenjutsuka@live.com<mailto:kenjutsuka@live.com>> wrote: Is he saying {patlh} can also mean "compare" or {patlhmoH} can mean "compare"? The statement about "compare" comes right after {patlhmoH}, but it seems odd syntactically and it seems odd to say "of course, the object of the verb is plural." However, I could easily see {patlh} with a plural subject to mean, "they compare". Could you clarify? It seems pretty clear that he's saying {patlhmoH} means "compare" with the things to be compared listed as the object. -- De'vID
Actually, Jeremy, I think you were on to something. {patlh} with a plural subject merely means "they are ranked," but adding {jaSHa'} you get "they are ranked similarly." Given the right context this might also be translated "they compare" or "they are comparable." {jaS patlh} by the same token could be translated as "they are not comparable." (I also just noticed that {jaS} or {jaSHa'} in these cases could refer either to the outcome implied by {patlh} or the process of becoming {patlh}.) ~mIp'av On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 7:21 AM, David Holt <kenjutsuka@live.com> wrote:
DopDaq qul yIchenmoH QobDI' ghu'
Yeah. Never mind. I had just woken up and I guess my brain wasn't working right. It makes complete sense for the OBJECT of {patlhmoH} to be plural with the intent of comparing them. But for some reason my brain read that the SUBJECTS were being compared and that didn't make any sense at all. I'm a little more awake now and reading words correctly again.
Jeremy
------------------------------ *From:* tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org> on behalf of De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> *Sent:* Friday, February 16, 2018 5:42 AM *To:* tlhIngan-Hol *Subject:* Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Maltz about to compare
On 16 February 2018 at 12:35, David Holt <kenjutsuka@live.com> wrote:
Is he saying {patlh} can also mean "compare" or {patlhmoH} can mean "compare"? The statement about "compare" comes right after {patlhmoH}, but it seems odd syntactically and it seems odd to say "of course, the object of the verb is plural."
However, I could easily see {patlh} with a plural subject to mean, "they compare". Could you clarify?
It seems pretty clear that he's saying {patlhmoH} means "compare" with the things to be compared listed as the object.
-- De'vID
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participants (7)
-
David Holt -
De'vID -
Ed Bailey -
kechpaja -
Lieven L. Litaer -
Steven Boozer -
SuStel