using {Doch} for non-physical things
Recently, I've been going through my notes.. And all of a sudden, qeylIS brought to my attention something I'd totally forgotten, which now I'll share, in case others have forgotten it too. On Sat, Jul 29, 2017, qurgh started the thread with the title: "qep'a' cha'maH loSDIch New words and some tidbits". In that thread, on Sun, Jul 30, 2017, RE Andeen wrote: *********** Another random tidbit. I was talking with Marc about something or other, and somebody nearby said “it’s the little things...” Marc said he would say <<DochHommey>> for that in Klingon. I had generally only used <<Doch>> for physical objects, but this indicates its somewhat more general. pagh *********** Here's the link too: http://lists.kli.org/pipermail/tlhingan-hol-kli.org/2017-July/004645.html This is all the justification I'd ever need.. I'll be {Doch}ing like there's no tomorrow.. ~ mayqel qunen'oS
On 1/24/2020 11:00 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
This is all the justification I'd ever need.. I'll be {Doch}ing like there's no tomorrow..
muberghmoHchu' /Doch/ lulo'qu'bogh ghot. Doch Daqelbogh tIngu'! -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
SuStel:
muberghmoHchu' Doch lulo'qu'bogh ghot. Doch Daqelbogh tIngu'!
Often, I want to say something like "this doesn't concern this matter", or "because of that which we discussed previously". I know that to express "matter", we have the noun {Soj}, but it *feels* too informal. Of course, {Doch} doesn't sound too "formal" either, but for some reason I can't identify, it just *feels* better. ~ mayqel qunen'oS
On Jan 24, 2020, at 10:25, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
I know that to express "matter", we have the noun {Soj}, but it *feels* too informal.
I’m not sure if it’s a matter of formality so much as it is one of idiom. It’s not an idiom that we would use in English, but that doesn’t mean it can’t be used in formal contexts in Klingon. And even without going into idiom, I think you can use a more specific word than {Doch} for “matter” here. The newer glosses of “topic, subject, theme” for {meq} would seem appropriate.
On 1/24/2020 11:23 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
SuStel:
muberghmoHchu' Doch lulo'qu'bogh ghot. Doch Daqelbogh tIngu'!
Often, I want to say something like "this doesn't concern this matter", or "because of that which we discussed previously".
I know that to express "matter", we have the noun {Soj}, but it *feels* too informal.
*Soj* is not slang, it's just idiomatic. It's probably only as informal as saying /on the other hand/ or /beating a dead horse./
Of course, {Doch} doesn't sound too "formal" either, but for some reason I can't identify, it just *feels* better.
Abusing the word/thing/ is something English teachers try to beat out of students, for good reason.// I would do the same for *Doch.* My wife calls half the objects in our house "the thing," and it drives me crazy. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
Depending on the nature of the “matter” we also have: ghu' situation, proposal (PB) wanI' phenomenon, event, occurrence, effect (qepHom 2016) Voragh ________________________________________________________________ From: mayqel qunen'oS Often, I want to say something like "this doesn't concern this matter", or "because of that which we discussed previously". I know that to express "matter", we have the noun {Soj}, but it *feels* too informal. Of course, {Doch} doesn't sound too "formal" either, but for some reason I can't identify, it just *feels* better.
On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 11:36 AM Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu> wrote:
Depending on the nature of the “matter” we also have:
ghu' situation, proposal (PB)
Strictly speaking, *ghu'* doesn't mean "proposal". The line from paq'batlh is: *ghu' Dachupbogh vIlaj* *I will accept your proposal* (PB p. 144-145, line 19) Literally, "I accept the situation that you suggest."
Hugh:
I think you can use a more specific word than {Doch} for “matter” here. The newer glosses of “topic, subject, theme” for {meq} would seem appropriate.
I've totally forgotten about this.. Indeed, {meq} would be a good choice. SuStel:
Soj is not slang, it's just idiomatic
This is something I always had trouble understanding.. Slang can't be used in formal speech; but can someone use idioms in formal speech, passages, etc ? voragh:
Depending on the nature of the “matter” we also have: ghu' situation, proposal (PB) wanI' phenomenon, event, occurrence, effect (qepHom 2016)
I've been often using {ghu'} and {wanI'}, however there are times something else is called for. I can't think of specific examples right now, but there are times I need some other "shade" of these words. Perhaps in order to say something like "I love you for the things you do".. I know, that there are ways to rephrase, but I think it would be good, to have the option to use {Doch} too. I agree though, that overusing {Doch} or any other word, can irritate the reader/listener, and doing so should be avoided. ~ mayqel qunen'oS
On Fri, Jan 24, 2020 at 12:00 PM mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
This is something I always had trouble understanding..
Slang can't be used in formal speech; but can someone use idioms in formal speech, passages, etc ?
Slang is specifically informal or colloquial speech used by certain social groups. An idiom is a phrase whose actual meaning isn't obvious from the literal meaning of the words in it. Idioms can be colloquial or slang, but they don't have to be. For instance, English has phrasal verbs (a verb plus a preposition or adverb), which are idiomatic and in very common use: "give up", "think over", "put up with", "look up", "look after", and so on. Looking up something (as in a dictionary or catalog) does not involve any upward motion or direction. Thinking over something does not involve being spatially located above that thing. As an example of an idiom being used in a formal, scientific setting, Okrand's Ph.D. dissertation on the Mutsun language has "Her comments about Mutsun are useful, but must be interpreted *in light of the fact* that Mutsun was, at best, a secondary language for her." (page 6). The underlined phrase is an idiom: the fact does not actually cast any light. The intended meaning is "while considering the fact". The idioms in KGT and elsewhere aren't described as being colloquial or slang, so they're probably fine to use in formal situations.
participants (6)
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Alan Anderson -
Hugh Son puqloD -
mayqel qunen'oS -
nIqolay Q -
Steven Boozer -
SuStel