ben law', dogmey vIghajmo' vIqotlhlaH. 'ach DaH Do'Ha', pagh dogmey vIghaj. toH nuq vIqotlhlaH ? pagh.. chaq be' jupwI' vIqotlhlaH, 'ach ghaH qotlhlu' 'e' parbe'. jI'IQ qunnoH ghogh HablI'wIjvo' vIngeHta'
On 11 October 2016 at 10:23, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
ben law', dogmey vIghajmo' vIqotlhlaH.
'ach DaH Do'Ha', pagh dogmey vIghaj. toH nuq vIqotlhlaH ? pagh..
chaq dog Daqotlh 'e' Daqotlhbe'. vay' qotlhlu' 'e' bajnISlu'.* *If you think {net} should be used here instead of {'e'}, good eye, and also see TKW p.125. -- De'vID
Am 11.10.2016 um 10:23 schrieb mayqel qunenoS:
chaq be' jupwI' vIqotlhlaH, 'ach ghaH qotlhlu' 'e' parbe'.
mu'vam yIbuSqa': qotlhlu' 'e' parbe'chugh, vaj 'oH neHbej. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka Quvar valer 'utlh Grammarian of the KLI http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher http://www.klingonwiki.net
De'vID:
vay' qotlhlu' 'e' bajnISlu'.* *If you think {net} should be used here instead of {'e'}, good eye, and also see TKW p.125.
Indeed I remember, that instead of {yadda yadda 'e' Xlu'} we say {yadda yadda net X}. Now, I went to TKW p.125 and read the examples: {yInlu'taH 'e' bajnISlu'} Survival must be earned. {yay chavlu' 'e' bajnISlu'.} Victory must be earned. And noticed that these examples obviously contradict the rule we're talking about. But I guess this is happening because (as we've said in the past), a lot of phrases in TKW don't follow standard klingon grammar. Is there anything else I need to observe/learn from these examples ? jIH:
chaq be' jupwI' vIqotlhlaH, 'ach ghaH qotlhlu' 'e' parbe'. lieven: mu'vam yIbuSqa': qotlhlu' 'e' parbe'chugh, vaj 'oH neHbej.
oh, you're right ! I should have used {par} instead of {parbe'}. qunnoH On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 12:50 PM, Lieven <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
Am 11.10.2016 um 10:23 schrieb mayqel qunenoS:
chaq be' jupwI' vIqotlhlaH, 'ach ghaH qotlhlu' 'e' parbe'.
mu'vam yIbuSqa': qotlhlu' 'e' parbe'chugh, vaj 'oH neHbej.
-- Lieven L. Litaer aka Quvar valer 'utlh Grammarian of the KLI http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher http://www.klingonwiki.net
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
De'vID:
vay' qotlhlu' 'e' bajnISlu'.* *If you think {net} should be used here instead of {'e'}, good eye, and also see TKW p.125.
qunnoq:
Indeed I remember, that instead of {yadda yadda 'e' Xlu'} we say {yadda yadda net X}. Now, I went to TKW p.125 and read the examples:
{yInlu'taH 'e' bajnISlu'} Survival must be earned.
{yay chavlu' 'e' bajnISlu'.} Victory must be earned.
Two more examples from Klingon Monopoly: Qang QanmeH yan 'ISletlh Damuv 'e' wIvlu'. You are chosen to serve on the Yan-Isleth and protect the chancellor. MKE DIvI' rojmab qep ghanglu' 'e' nIDlu', 'ach taH qep. Despite efforts to halt them, peace talks with Federation continue. MKE
And noticed that these examples obviously contradict the rule we're talking about. But I guess this is happening because (as we've said in the past), a lot of phrases in TKW don't follow standard Klingon grammar.
It should be remembered that even though the rules say "always" and "never," when Klingon is actually spoken these rules are sometimes broken. What the rules represent, in other words, is what Klingon grammarians agree on as the "best" Klingon." - Marc Okrand, TKD (introduction) ...the course to follow for a student probably falls somewhere between. You don't want to go too fast and loose or too far afield because then nobody will understand what you are doing. You won't have any rules at all. You don't want to be too rigorous, either. It's not math. One of the things that I think about when I read what people have to say about Klingon sometimes is when someone argues that things have to be one way, I think, "No, it shouldn't always be like that." It should be like that in maybe 75% or 80% of the cases, but not 100%. Languages don't work that way. -Marc Okrand interviewed (HolQeD 7.4) The grammatical sketch is intended to be an outline of Klingon grammar, not a complete description. Nevertheless, it should allow the reader to put Klingon words together in an acceptable manner... It is not possible, in a brief guide such as this, to describe the grammar of Klingon completely. What follows is only a sketch or outline of Klingon grammar. Although a good many of the fine points are not covered, the sketch will allow the student of Klingon to figure out what a Klingon is saying and to respond in an intelligible, though somewhat brutish, manner. Most Klingons will never know the difference. - Marc Okrand, TKD (introduction) -- Voragh tlhIngan ghantoH pIn'a' Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
On 11 October 2016 at 17:27, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
De'vID:
vay' qotlhlu' 'e' bajnISlu'.* *If you think {net} should be used here instead of {'e'}, good eye, and also see TKW p.125.
Indeed I remember, that instead of {yadda yadda 'e' Xlu'} we say {yadda yadda net X}.
Did you also understand how {qotlh} is being used in the second sentence? {chaq dog Daqotlh 'e' Daqotlhbe'. vay' qotlhlu' 'e' bajnISlu'.}
Now, I went to TKW p.125 and read the examples:
{yInlu'taH 'e' bajnISlu'} Survival must be earned.
{yay chavlu' 'e' bajnISlu'.} Victory must be earned.
And noticed that these examples obviously contradict the rule we're talking about. But I guess this is happening because (as we've said in the past), a lot of phrases in TKW don't follow standard klingon grammar.
Is there anything else I need to observe/learn from these examples ?
Only that (as Voragh has elaborated on with his examples) that what TKD says is good Klingon grammar isn't 100% followed in practice. -- De'vID
De'vID:
Did you also understand how {qotlh} is being used in the second sentence? {chaq dog Daqotlh 'e' Daqotlhbe'. vay' qotlhlu' 'e' bajnISlu'}
At first I was confused, but finally I realized that in the second sentence it means "to deserve". qunnoH On Wed, Oct 12, 2016 at 8:43 AM, De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> wrote:
On 11 October 2016 at 17:27, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
De'vID:
vay' qotlhlu' 'e' bajnISlu'.* *If you think {net} should be used here instead of {'e'}, good eye, and also see TKW p.125.
Indeed I remember, that instead of {yadda yadda 'e' Xlu'} we say {yadda yadda net X}.
Did you also understand how {qotlh} is being used in the second sentence? {chaq dog Daqotlh 'e' Daqotlhbe'. vay' qotlhlu' 'e' bajnISlu'.}
Now, I went to TKW p.125 and read the examples:
{yInlu'taH 'e' bajnISlu'} Survival must be earned.
{yay chavlu' 'e' bajnISlu'.} Victory must be earned.
And noticed that these examples obviously contradict the rule we're talking about. But I guess this is happening because (as we've said in the past), a lot of phrases in TKW don't follow standard klingon grammar.
Is there anything else I need to observe/learn from these examples ?
Only that (as Voragh has elaborated on with his examples) that what TKD says is good Klingon grammar isn't 100% followed in practice.
-- De'vID _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
On 12 October 2016 at 08:14, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
De'vID:
Did you also understand how {qotlh} is being used in the second sentence? {chaq dog Daqotlh 'e' Daqotlhbe'. vay' qotlhlu' 'e' bajnISlu'}
At first I was confused, but finally I realized that in the second sentence it means "to deserve".
bISuDrup'a'? -- De'vID
hmm.. jIbItchoH ! hehehe ! 'a HIja' jIjang.. qunnoH ghogh HablI'wIjvo' vIngeHta' On 12 Oct 2016 9:25 a.m., "De'vID" <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> wrote:
On 12 October 2016 at 08:14, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
De'vID:
Did you also understand how {qotlh} is being used in the second sentence? {chaq dog Daqotlh 'e' Daqotlhbe'. vay' qotlhlu' 'e' bajnISlu'}
At first I was confused, but finally I realized that in the second sentence it means "to deserve".
bISuDrup'a'?
-- De'vID _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
De'vID;
cha'logh mu'tlheghmeyvam yIlaDqa': {chaq dog Daqotlh 'e' Daqotlhbe'. vay' qotlhlu' 'e' bajnISlu'}
maj. I'll read them again. the first sentence {chaq dog Daqotlh 'e' Daqotlhbe'}, translates to "perhaps you don't deserve to tickle the dog" and the second sentence {vay' qotlhlu' 'e' bajnISlu'}, translates to "someone needs to earn that someone tickles someone/something". oh. now I see.. the {qotlh} at the second sentence means "to tickle". so, did I get it right this time ? qunnoH On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 8:49 AM, De'vID <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> wrote:
On 12 October 2016 at 09:55, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
bISuDrup'a'? hmm.. jIbItchoH ! hehehe ! 'a HIja' jIjang..
cha'logh mu'tlheghmeyvam yIlaDqa': {chaq dog Daqotlh 'e' Daqotlhbe'. vay' qotlhlu' 'e' bajnISlu'}
-- De'vID _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
On 13 October 2016 at 08:40, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
De'vID;
cha'logh mu'tlheghmeyvam yIlaDqa': {chaq dog Daqotlh 'e' Daqotlhbe'. vay' qotlhlu' 'e' bajnISlu'}
maj. I'll read them again.
the first sentence {chaq dog Daqotlh 'e' Daqotlhbe'}, translates to "perhaps you don't deserve to tickle the dog"
and the second sentence {vay' qotlhlu' 'e' bajnISlu'}, translates to "someone needs to earn that someone tickles someone/something".
oh. now I see.. the {qotlh} at the second sentence means "to tickle".
so, did I get it right this time ?
Schrödinger vIghro' Daqotlh. -- De'vID
De'vID:
Schrödinger vIghro' Daqotlh
Do I deserve it, or do I just tickle it ? hehehe vIghro'vam vISovbe', 'ej vISovbe'mo' *google*Daq vIQulta'. 'ach jIHvaD Qatlhqu' vIghro'vam qay'wI'. qunnoH ghogh HablI'wIjvo' vIngeHta' On 13 Oct 2016 11:08 a.m., "De'vID" <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com> wrote:
On 13 October 2016 at 08:40, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
De'vID;
cha'logh mu'tlheghmeyvam yIlaDqa': {chaq dog Daqotlh 'e' Daqotlhbe'. vay' qotlhlu' 'e' bajnISlu'}
maj. I'll read them again.
the first sentence {chaq dog Daqotlh 'e' Daqotlhbe'}, translates to "perhaps you don't deserve to tickle the dog"
and the second sentence {vay' qotlhlu' 'e' bajnISlu'}, translates to "someone needs to earn that someone tickles someone/something".
oh. now I see.. the {qotlh} at the second sentence means "to tickle".
so, did I get it right this time ?
Schrödinger vIghro' Daqotlh.
-- De'vID _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
participants (4)
-
De'vID -
Lieven -
mayqel qunenoS -
Steven Boozer