bej and na' slang are defined as "be sure, be definite, be positive, be certain". If I write jIbej then does this mean "I'm certain" as in "I'm sure, I have no doubt", or "I am the certain" whatever that means ? ~ changan qIj
On Mar 12, 2019, at 11:21, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
If I write jIbej then does this mean "I'm certain" as in "I'm sure, I have no doubt", or "I am the certain" whatever that means ?
It certainly means “I watch”. Where is this extra “the” coming from? “certain” isn’t a noun.
I can't express it adequately in english. When we say a fact is certain, we mean that the fact is certain; it is actual, it can't be disputed. When we say jIbej, does it mean "I am certain", as in "I'm sure", or would it mean "I'm actual, undisputed, etc ?" ~ changan qIj
You answered the question in the first email: bej and na' slang are defined as "be sure, be definite, be positive, be
certain".
It means all those things, so {jIbej} must mean "I am certain" as "I am sure". The extra glosses are there for clarification purposes. qurgh On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 12:42 PM mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
I can't express it adequately in english.
When we say a fact is certain, we mean that the fact is certain; it is actual, it can't be disputed.
When we say jIbej, does it mean "I am certain", as in "I'm sure", or would it mean "I'm actual, undisputed, etc ?"
~ changan qIj _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
On Mar 12, 2019, at 11:41, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
I can't express it adequately in english.
When we say a fact is certain, we mean that the fact is certain; it is actual, it can't be disputed.
When we say jIbej, does it mean "I am certain", as in "I'm sure", or would it mean "I'm actual, undisputed, etc ?"
Ah, I think I understand your question now. It might help to re-ask it as something like “is the subject of {bej} a {ghot} who has no doubt, or a {ngoD} which can’t be disputed? To which I don’t know the answer, but my intuition is that it’s a person.
The canon from KGT: {bej} ("be sure, definite, positive, certain") The verb {bej} literally means "watch," though its slang usage is probably influenced by the verb suffix {-bej} ("certainly, undoubtedly"; compare {voq,} "trust," and {voqbej,} "certainly trust"). It is used in such forms as {jIbej} ("I am positive [about something I just said]"---literally, "I watch" [{jI-,} "I"]) or {bIbej'a'?} ("Are you sure?"---literally, "Do you watch?" [{bI-,} "you"; {-'a',} interrogative). Unlike the verb {na'} ("be salty"), which has an identical slang meaning (see below), the verb {bej} may be used when there is an object: {HIvrup 'e' vIbej} ("I am positive they're ready to attack"; literally, "I watch that they're ready to attack"; {HIv,} "[they] attack"; {-rup,} "ready"; {'e',} "that"; {vI-,} "I [do something to] it"). The notions expressed by {bej} can be conveyed without slang with a word such as {Honbe'} ("not doubt") or by making use of the verb suffix {-bej,} as in {HIvrupbej} ("They're certainly ready to attack"). qurgh On Tue, Mar 12, 2019 at 1:18 PM Daniel Dadap <daniel@dadap.net> wrote:
On Mar 12, 2019, at 11:41, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
I can't express it adequately in english.
When we say a fact is certain, we mean that the fact is certain; it is actual, it can't be disputed.
When we say jIbej, does it mean "I am certain", as in "I'm sure", or would it mean "I'm actual, undisputed, etc ?"
Ah, I think I understand your question now. It might help to re-ask it as something like “is the subject of {bej} a {ghot} who has no doubt, or a {ngoD} which can’t be disputed?
To which I don’t know the answer, but my intuition is that it’s a person. _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
From: mayqel qunen'oS
{bej} and {na'} slang are defined as "be sure, be definite, be positive, be certain". If I write {jIbej} then does this mean "I'm certain" as in "I'm sure, I have no doubt", or "I am the certain" whatever that means ? [….] When we say a fact is certain, we mean that the fact is certain; it is actual, it can't be disputed. When we say {jIbej}, does it mean "I am certain", as in "I'm sure", or would it mean "I'm actual, undisputed, etc. ?"
(KGT 145): The verb {bej} literally means “watch”, though its slang usage is probably influenced by the verb suffix {-bej} (“certainly, undoubtedly”; compare {voq}, “trust”, and {voqbej}, “certainly trust”). It is used in such forms as {jIbej} (I am positive [about something I just said] - literally, “I watch”) or {bIbej'a'?} (Are you sure? - literally, “Do you watch?”). Unlike the verb {na'} (“be salty”), which has an identical slang meaning (see below), the verb {bej} may be used when there is an object: {HIvrup 'e' vIbej} (“I am positive they're ready to attack”; literally, “I watch that they're ready to attack”). The notions expressed by {bej} can be conveyed without slang with a word such as {Honbe'} (not doubt) or by making use of the verb suffix {-bej}, as in {HIvrupbej} (They're certainly ready to attack). (KGT 155-57): The word {na'} literally means "be salty," but its slang usage is probably influenced by the noun suffix {-na'} (definite), which is used when the speaker wants to indicate that he or she is absolutely sure about what is being said (compare {maghwI'}, "traitor," and {maghwI'na'} "definite traitor, without a doubt a traitor"). The slang word, a verb, is used in such constructions as {jIna'} (I am positive [about something I just said]; literally, “I am salty”] and {bIna''a'} (Are you sure?; literally, “Are you salty?”). These kinds of meanings may be expressed without using slang by employing such verbs as {Honbe'} (not doubt) or {Sovbej} (know for certain). FYI the noun is {DIch} “certainty” as in: SIS 'e' 'aqlu', javmaH vatlhvI' DIch It is predicted it will rain, 60% certainty. (qep'a' 2017) Daniel:
Ah, I think I understand your question now. It might help to re-ask it as something like “is the subject of {bej} a {ghot} who has no doubt, or a {ngoD} which can’t be disputed? To which I don’t know the answer, but my intuition is that it’s a person.
Reading KGT, it seems that Okrand understands the subject of {bej} and {na’} to be a person. -- Voragh
participants (4)
-
Daniel Dadap -
mayqel qunen'oS -
qurgh lungqIj -
Steven Boozer