ghItlhpu' mayqel, jatlhpu':

Can I say {vatlhmey jagh} for "hundreds of enemies" ?

The closest relevant canon evidence I can think of is from the paq'batlh: SaD law' San chenmoH qeylIS Kahless decided the fate of thousands (paq'raD 23.44) However, this lends weight rather to SuStel's guess that without a specific number, the element would tend more to be treated more as a noun rather than a number in the sense we're used to in Klingon; given the English parallel text, the sense of SaD law' San appears to be not so much "thousands of fates" as "the fates of thousands [of people]". Similarly, I'd interpret vatlhmey jagh only as "the enemy of hundreds". So based upon that evidence, I think you'd have to invert the order of the phrase for "hundreds of enemies", and I'd lean towards keeping law', as well (since when one says "hundreds of X" or "thousands of X" in English, it also necessarily implies the quantity is perceived as large beyond the need for more accurate counting): so, jagh vatlh law' San chenmoH qeylIS Kahless decided the fate of (many) hundreds of enemies, or nuHIvchoHpu' jagh vatlh law' (many) hundreds of enemies began to attack us. QeS 'utlh

AFAIK the only other use of {law'} following a number is another example with {SaD} again from the paq'batlh: tlheDDI' quvmoHmeH veng HeHDaq lutlha' SaD law' nuvpu' Thousands followed him to the edge of the city, to bid him farewell. PB Can anyone think of another example? Yet another option for "hundreds of enemies, thousands of dead," etc. is to use {vItlh} "be high, be great" instead: (qepHom 2017 p.17): "{vItlh} means 'be high, great (in quantity, size, intensity)'. It's used for things that are measurable or quantifiable but not necessarily countable. So you'd use it for things like speed or distance or the price of something: {Do vItlh} 'high velocity', {chuq vItlh} 'great range, great distance'. You wouldn't use {law'} in these instances. For things you can count (like people) (as opposed to things you can measure using units of measure, like length or speed), you'd use {law'} almost all the time. But you'd use {vItlh} if the number of whatever it is you're talking about is higher than normal or greater than before or greater than what was expected. "So if you were referring to a lot of warriors, you'd most likely say {SuvwI'pu' law'}. But if the high number of warriors is somehow important, if it's the point you're trying to make and not just an added fact, you'd use {vItlh}. You'd use it if you're not saying merely that there are a lot of warriors, but that the quantity of warriors is particularly high (higher than usual, higher than expected, higher than some other similar group of warriors, etc.). So it sounds like L'Rell used {vItlh} correctly in referring to the large number of people who died in battle (more than expected, more than before, etc.). Note that the exact number of warriors (or whatever) doesn't matter (and doesn't have to be stated). The idea is that the high number of warriors you're talking about is somehow noteworthy (the number of warriors who died is greater than the norm for this sort of military unit, for example)." -- Voragh Ca'Non Master of the Klingons -----Original Message----- From: mayqel qunen'oS Rhona Fenwick, quoting paq'batlh:

SaD law' San chenmoH qeylIS Kahless decided the fate of thousands (paq'raD 23.44)

This is a beautiful example, thank you for sharing. In the past, I've seen experienced speakers, writing in this list numbers followed by {law'}, and wondered where this is based. So, this Ca'Non example answers something I've been wondering for quite some time now. Thanks QeS. ~ m. qunen'oS _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org

De'vID:

bISuDrup'a'? ngoDvam DaSovlaw'pu': On Tue, 21 Jun 2016 at 10:42, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote: tlheDDI' quvmoHmeH veng HeHDaq lutlha' SaD law' nuvpu' Thousands followed him to the edge of the city, to bid him farewell. PB this proves that we can actually say {SaD law'}, and opens the doors for placing similar verbs, on various number forming elements.

De'vID, jupwI', qawlIj vIHo'bej. QInvam vIghItlhpu' 'e' vIlIjchu' ! De'vID, my friend, I truly admire your memory. I'd completely forgotten I'd written that message ! 'ej mu'meyvam vIHarbej. qawlIj vIHo'qu' ! and I truly mean it. I *do* admire your memory ! ~ m. qunen'oS