Suppose we write: romuluS wo' wIQaw'chu' 'e' 'oHbe' ngoQmaj'e' our goal isn't to annihilate the romulan empire Would there be a problem with a construction as the above ? On one hand, I can't be able to see anything grammatically wrong with it, on the other hand though, it seems rather strange seeing before the {'oHbe'} the {'e'}. One would expect for this slot to be able to accept only nouns. ~ Qa'yIn
On 6/29/2020 8:22 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
Suppose we write:
romuluS wo' wIQaw'chu' 'e' 'oHbe' ngoQmaj'e' our goal isn't to annihilate the romulan empire
Would there be a problem with a construction as the above ?
Unknown.
On one hand, I can't be able to see anything grammatically wrong with it,
Here's what might be wrong with it: *'e'* can only be an object. We don't know if the first noun in a "to be" sentence is considered an object. The pronoun in a "to be" sentence doesn't "act upon" an object the way a verb does. "To be" sentences are said to have subjects, but in one-noun "to be" sentences, that subject is the pronoun itself, while in two-noun "to be" sentences, the subject is the topic noun. So the terminology is very imprecise and unreliable. And even if we decide to call the first noun an object (just as in English we can have objects of things that aren't verbs, like objects of prepositions), the description of *'e'* and *net* say "They are always treated as the object of the verb..." There is no verb in a "to be" sentence. So while it's not impossible that *'e'* could go with a "to be" sentence, there is no indication that this ever happens. Besides, in your example you can say the much simpler *romuluS wo' Qaw'chu'ghach 'oHbe' ngoQmaj'e'*/Our goal is not the annihilation of the Romulan Empire./ -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
I want to thank SuStel and Lieven for very thoughtful responses here. Many with high expertise in the language would not have made this deeper second pass on the issue at hand. While Okrand is the defined “decider” on all things Klingon, the KLI is the steward of the language on his behalf. I think the language is in good hands. charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.
On Jun 29, 2020, at 8:47 AM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
On 6/29/2020 8:22 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
Suppose we write:
romuluS wo' wIQaw'chu' 'e' 'oHbe' ngoQmaj'e' our goal isn't to annihilate the romulan empire
Would there be a problem with a construction as the above ? Unknown.
On one hand, I can't be able to see anything grammatically wrong with it, Here's what might be wrong with it: 'e' can only be an object. We don't know if the first noun in a "to be" sentence is considered an object.
The pronoun in a "to be" sentence doesn't "act upon" an object the way a verb does. "To be" sentences are said to have subjects, but in one-noun "to be" sentences, that subject is the pronoun itself, while in two-noun "to be" sentences, the subject is the topic noun. So the terminology is very imprecise and unreliable.
And even if we decide to call the first noun an object (just as in English we can have objects of things that aren't verbs, like objects of prepositions), the description of 'e' and net say "They are always treated as the object of the verb..." There is no verb in a "to be" sentence.
So while it's not impossible that 'e' could go with a "to be" sentence, there is no indication that this ever happens.
Besides, in your example you can say the much simpler romuluS wo' Qaw'chu'ghach 'oHbe' ngoQmaj'e' Our goal is not the annihilation of the Romulan Empire.
-- SuStel http://trimboli.name <http://trimboli.name/>_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
Am 29.06.2020 um 14:22 schrieb mayqel qunen'oS:
romuluS wo' wIQaw'chu' 'e' 'oHbe' ngoQmaj'e' our goal isn't to annihilate the romulan empire
Would there be a problem with a construction as the above ? On one hand, I can't be able to see anything grammatically wrong with it, on the other hand though, it seems rather strange seeing before the {'oHbe'} the {'e'}.
I think it's not okay because TKD says that 'e' is "used primarily, not exclusively, with verbs of thinking or observation" You might stick on "not exclusively", but it continues "They are always treated as the object of the verb, " and {'oH} is not a verb, and it also continues with "the verb always takes a prefix indicating a third-person singular object." which does also not apply to the pronoun used in a to-be-sentence. -- Lieven L. Litaer aka the "Klingon Teacher from Germany" http://www.tlhInganHol.com http://klingon.wiki/En/SentenceAsObject
participants (4)
-
Lieven L. Litaer -
mayqel qunen'oS -
SuStel -
Will Martin