jar DamaSqu'bogh yIngu' vs nuq 'oH jar'e' DamaSqu'bogh
There's the following link: http://klingonska.org/canon/1996-12-12b-news.txt Where 'oqranD explains why one should say {jar DamaSqu'bogh yIngu'} instead of {jarlIj qaq nuq?} for "what is your favorite month?". I've read this article, and I think I understand the reason why we can't say {jarlIj qaq nuq?}. But what I'm wondering is this: If we wrote {nuq 'oH jar'e' DamaSqu'bogh} would it be as problematic as the {jarlIj qaq nuq?} ? For ease of reference, I copy-paste here the relevant text from klingonska. *************** You suggested translating "What is your favorite month?" as: jarlIj qaq nuq? This one's a little easier to deal with. Your sentence literally means "What is your preferable month?" The basic syntax is correct. Question words (in this case, nuq "what?") function the same way pronouns do in questions with "to be" in the English translations. Thus, the question yIH nuq? "What is a tribble?" is exactly parallel the statement yIH 'oH "It is a tribble" (where yIH is "tribble" and 'oH is "it"). The answer to the question yIH nuq? ("What is a tribble?") would presumably be a definition or description of a tribble. This being the case, then, the answer to the question jarlIj qaq nuq? ("What is your preferable month?") would presumably be a definition of "your favorite month." But this is not what you want to find out by asking your question. What you really mean to ask is something like "Of all the months, which one do you prefer?" The first word in your sentence, jarlIj, means "your month" (jar "month," -lIj "your"). But given that what you're really asking is "Which month do you prefer?" it's not really "your month" at all. The "you" should go with the verb, not with "month." Which brings us to the verb. You use qIb, "be preferable," adjectivally (jarlIj qIb is "your preferable month"). I think what you mean is better expressed by using the verb maS "prefer" with "you" as the subject: jar DamaS "you prefer the month." If you want to highlight the notion of "most prefer," you can use the emphatic suffix -qu': jar DamaSqu' "you very much prefer the month." (In this case, since "prefer" involves making a choice, the one chosen is automatically the one that is "most" preferred.) So what about the "what" (or "which") of your original question ("What/which is your favorite month?")? When asking someone a question of this type, you are really asking him or her to make a choice. So just be a Klingon and order them to do so: "Identify the month that you very much prefer!": jar DamaSqu'bogh yIngu' DamaSqu'bogh "that you very much prefer" (DamaSqu' "you very much prefer it" plus -bogh "which," the relative-clause marker) modifies jar "month" and the whole phrase jar DamaSqu'bogh "the month that you very much prefer" is the object of the verb ngu' ("identify"), which is preceded by the imperative prefix yI- ("do something to it!"). *************** ~ Qa'yIn
You’ve touched on what is probably the one feature of Klingon that I personally contributed to… That doesn’t make me special. I’m just a guy who either came up with an idea that Okrand liked, or a guy who came up with an idea that Okrand already had come up with and didn’t tell anybody yet. Only Okrand knows for sure. The point is that a lot of us argued about this for a month or two and I came up with the answer that Okrand liked most. In other areas of grammar, I’ve come up with ideas that Okrand completely ignored. It’s hit or miss. I’ve missed a lot, but in this one area, I hit. In any case, the issue is that in English, we might say, “Which month do you prefer?” Or “What month do you prefer?” And not really notice or care, in Klingon, this presents a problem. Klingon uses question words that stand in for the answer word, so that if we replace the question word with the answer word, we’ve converted the original question into the answer statement. Klingon has question word for “Who” (noun), “What” (noun), “When” (time stamp), “Where” (locative), “How” (adverb). There is no adjectival question word “Which”. This is problematic, since most of the grammatical methods for answering “Which” are enacted by the Type 4 noun suffix: Which weapon do you want? I want THIS weapon. Which betleH is sharper? MY betleH is sharper. Which team won? OUR team won. But “Which” can also be answered by some other identifying noun in a noun-noun genitive phrase. Which month do you prefer? I prefer the month OF JUNE. In all cases, the question “which” is answered with an identification, hence Klingon conveys the meaning of the English question word “Which” by use of the command {yIngu’}. Asking someone “which” item is X is essentially a command to have that person identify the item. So, there is no Klingon question word for “Which”. Going back to the earlier statement that in English we sometimes use the word “What” when we’d more accurately use the word “Which” and nobody cares, it makes a difference in Klingon because the Klingon word {nuq} is a noun. It’s never anything but a noun. You can’t use it in any question that tries to ask a question that is not answered by the statement formed by repeating the question with {nuq} replaced by the noun it stands for. *{jarlIj qaq nuq} doesn’t work because *{jarwIj qaq maqtagh} isn’t grammatically correct. It doesn’t make sense as a Klingon sentence. {jar DamaSqu’bogh yIngu’!} makes total sense as a Klingon sentence. {nuq ‘oH jar’e’ DamaSqu’bogh} also makes sense, though it might be considered stylistically indirect or evasive enough to earn you a few distrusting looks. Instead of directly telling me to identify my favorite month, you are asking me what my favorite month is. As a longtime Klingon speaker, I’m expressing an opinion here, not backed up by any grammatical rule or requirement. To me, it sounds like, “If I, or some unidentified other person, were, hypothetically speaking, to politely request that you identify your favorite month, what, in that hypothetical setting, would your answer be?” I’d be disinclined to answer hypothetical requests. I’d just wait for you to come out and say what you mean. I’m sure that others would just answer you. I speak for no one but myself. charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.
On Jul 13, 2020, at 8:22 AM, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
There's the following link:
http://klingonska.org/canon/1996-12-12b-news.txt
Where 'oqranD explains why one should say {jar DamaSqu'bogh yIngu'} instead of {jarlIj qaq nuq?} for "what is your favorite month?".
I've read this article, and I think I understand the reason why we can't say {jarlIj qaq nuq?}. But what I'm wondering is this:
If we wrote {nuq 'oH jar'e' DamaSqu'bogh} would it be as problematic as the {jarlIj qaq nuq?} ?
For ease of reference, I copy-paste here the relevant text from klingonska.
***************
You suggested translating "What is your favorite month?" as:
jarlIj qaq nuq?
This one's a little easier to deal with. Your sentence literally means "What is your preferable month?" The basic syntax is correct. Question words (in this case, nuq "what?") function the same way pronouns do in questions with "to be" in the English translations. Thus, the question yIH nuq? "What is a tribble?" is exactly parallel the statement yIH 'oH "It is a tribble" (where yIH is "tribble" and 'oH is "it"). The answer to the question yIH nuq? ("What is a tribble?") would presumably be a definition or description of a tribble. This being the case, then, the answer to the question jarlIj qaq nuq? ("What is your preferable month?") would presumably be a definition of "your favorite month." But this is not what you want to find out by asking your question. What you really mean to ask is something like "Of all the months, which one do you prefer?"
The first word in your sentence, jarlIj, means "your month" (jar "month," -lIj "your"). But given that what you're really asking is "Which month do you prefer?" it's not really "your month" at all. The "you" should go with the verb, not with "month."
Which brings us to the verb. You use qIb, "be preferable," adjectivally (jarlIj qIb is "your preferable month"). I think what you mean is better expressed by using the verb maS "prefer" with "you" as the subject: jar DamaS "you prefer the month." If you want to highlight the notion of "most prefer," you can use the emphatic suffix -qu': jar DamaSqu' "you very much prefer the month." (In this case, since "prefer" involves making a choice, the one chosen is automatically the one that is "most" preferred.)
So what about the "what" (or "which") of your original question ("What/which is your favorite month?")? When asking someone a question of this type, you are really asking him or her to make a choice. So just be a Klingon and order them to do so: "Identify the month that you very much prefer!":
jar DamaSqu'bogh yIngu'
DamaSqu'bogh "that you very much prefer" (DamaSqu' "you very much prefer it" plus -bogh "which," the relative-clause marker) modifies jar "month" and the whole phrase jar DamaSqu'bogh "the month that you very much prefer" is the object of the verb ngu' ("identify"), which is preceded by the imperative prefix yI- ("do something to it!").
***************
~ Qa'yIn _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
On 7/13/2020 10:37 AM, Will Martin wrote:
the Klingon word {nuq} is a noun. It’s never anything but a noun.
The Klingon word *nuq* is a *chuv.* it's never anything but a *chuv.* However, it can /stand in/ for a noun. We have a term for words that stand in for nouns: /pronouns./ And we know something else about Klingon pronouns: they can be used in copulas, where one word gets identified with another word. *yIH nuq?** *
You can’t use it in any question that tries to ask a question that is not answered by the statement formed by repeating the question with {nuq} replaced by the noun it stands for.
In basic sentences, this is correct, and I believe your reasoning for why *jarlIj qaq nuq* doesn't work is also correct. However, it is not generally true, as the answer to *yIH nuq* cannot be *yIH Ha'DIbaH 'up****.* -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
Once again, your analysis is excellent. Question words are chuvmey and they stand in for the things I said they stand in for. I should have said that {nuq} stands in for a noun and can’t stand in for anything but a noun. {yIH nuq} works because {nuq} sort of works like a pronoun, except when it doesn’t. Considering that the correct answer would be {Ha’DIbaH ‘oH yIH’e’} it’s pretty clear that {yIH nuq} is probably a shortened version of {nuq ‘oH yIH’e’}. The word {nuq} absorbs the meaning of {nuq ‘oH}, and with a single noun combined with the resulting chuv acting as a pronoun, the noun comes first. We don’t say *{nuq yIH} for the same reason we don’t say *{maH tlhIngan}. When one noun forms a sentence with a pronoun, the noun comes first. charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.
On Jul 13, 2020, at 10:53 AM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
On 7/13/2020 10:37 AM, Will Martin wrote:
the Klingon word {nuq} is a noun. It’s never anything but a noun. The Klingon word nuq is a chuv. it's never anything but a chuv. However, it can stand in for a noun. We have a term for words that stand in for nouns: pronouns. And we know something else about Klingon pronouns: they can be used in copulas, where one word gets identified with another word. yIH nuq?
You can’t use it in any question that tries to ask a question that is not answered by the statement formed by repeating the question with {nuq} replaced by the noun it stands for. In basic sentences, this is correct, and I believe your reasoning for why jarlIj qaq nuq doesn't work is also correct. However, it is not generally true, as the answer to yIH nuq cannot be yIH Ha'DIbaH 'up.
-- SuStel http://trimboli.name <http://trimboli.name/>_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
On 7/13/2020 11:11 AM, Will Martin wrote:
{yIH nuq} works because {nuq} sort of works like a pronoun, except when it doesn’t.
It always works like a pronoun. Pronouns have two functions in Klingon: they stand in for nouns *(nuq legh yaS),* and they help identify nouns *(yIH nuq).* I doubt *nuq* does all the things that pronouns can do. I doubt, for instance, that you'd ever put verb suffixes on *nuq.* I don't think *yIH nuqbe'* /What isn't a tribble?/ is a well-formed sentence. We don't really know anything about that. But *nuq* always functions basically the way a pronoun functions in Klingon.
Considering that the correct answer would be {Ha’DIbaH ‘oH yIH’e’} it’s pretty clear that {yIH nuq} is probably a shortened version of {nuq ‘oH yIH’e’}. The word {nuq} absorbs the meaning of {nuq ‘oH}, and with a single noun combined with the resulting chuv acting as a pronoun, the noun comes first.
"Pretty clear"? The ONLY evidence I can think of to support anything like that is the clipped version of *nuqDaq 'oH puchpa''e'* turning into *nuqDaq puchpa'.* One single sentence using a different word isn't what I'd call "pretty clear." It's a possibility only. We have evidence against that claim, in that Okrand said the word *nuq* works "the same way pronouns do in questions with 'to be' in the English translations," and says that *yIH nuq* is exactly parallel to *yIH 'oH.* That explanation contradicts the Clipped Klingon suggestion.
We don’t say *{nuq yIH} for the same reason we don’t say *{maH tlhIngan}. When one noun forms a sentence with a pronoun, the noun comes first.
Except we have *nuq mI'lIj, tera'ngan* from CK. I've also internalized that we have both *SoH 'Iv* and *'Iv SoH,* but I can't find a source for *'Iv SoH,* so that may not be a canonical sentence. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
I forgot {‘ar} (number, or number + unit of measure). The point really is that in your suggestion, you came up with a question that uses a Klingon {nuq} as a noun, so it is grammatically correct, but you are using it with {ngu’}, which is the verb one uses to tell someone to identify something, which is a common usage in Klingon to express what English speakers express with the question word “which”. “Which” is not a question that Klingons ask. Instead of asking it as a question, they issue it as a command. If you work out grammatically correct constructions of a question that asks “which”, you are dodging the convention that Klingon speakers commonly use, and it shows. A Klingon speaker almost certainly would not do that, because your motive is obviously to ask the English question “Which” as a question. As a Klingon speaker, that motive doesn’t exist because there already is a way to get that answer. You just tell someone to give you the answer. Likely, if there were simple, consistent ways to ask the other Klingon questions as commands, there wouldn’t be ANY Klingon question words. It’s quicker and simpler to ask the Klingon questions, and there is no simpler, quicker way to ask “Which”, except to command someone to identify the item in question. charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.
On Jul 13, 2020, at 10:37 AM, Will Martin <willmartin2@mac.com> wrote:
You’ve touched on what is probably the one feature of Klingon that I personally contributed to… That doesn’t make me special. I’m just a guy who either came up with an idea that Okrand liked, or a guy who came up with an idea that Okrand already had come up with and didn’t tell anybody yet. Only Okrand knows for sure. The point is that a lot of us argued about this for a month or two and I came up with the answer that Okrand liked most.
In other areas of grammar, I’ve come up with ideas that Okrand completely ignored. It’s hit or miss. I’ve missed a lot, but in this one area, I hit.
In any case, the issue is that in English, we might say, “Which month do you prefer?” Or “What month do you prefer?” And not really notice or care, in Klingon, this presents a problem.
Klingon uses question words that stand in for the answer word, so that if we replace the question word with the answer word, we’ve converted the original question into the answer statement.
Klingon has question word for “Who” (noun), “What” (noun), “When” (time stamp), “Where” (locative), “How” (adverb). There is no adjectival question word “Which”. This is problematic, since most of the grammatical methods for answering “Which” are enacted by the Type 4 noun suffix:
Which weapon do you want? I want THIS weapon.
Which betleH is sharper? MY betleH is sharper.
Which team won? OUR team won.
But “Which” can also be answered by some other identifying noun in a noun-noun genitive phrase. Which month do you prefer? I prefer the month OF JUNE.
In all cases, the question “which” is answered with an identification, hence Klingon conveys the meaning of the English question word “Which” by use of the command {yIngu’}. Asking someone “which” item is X is essentially a command to have that person identify the item.
So, there is no Klingon question word for “Which”.
Going back to the earlier statement that in English we sometimes use the word “What” when we’d more accurately use the word “Which” and nobody cares, it makes a difference in Klingon because the Klingon word {nuq} is a noun. It’s never anything but a noun. You can’t use it in any question that tries to ask a question that is not answered by the statement formed by repeating the question with {nuq} replaced by the noun it stands for.
*{jarlIj qaq nuq} doesn’t work because *{jarwIj qaq maqtagh} isn’t grammatically correct. It doesn’t make sense as a Klingon sentence.
{jar DamaSqu’bogh yIngu’!} makes total sense as a Klingon sentence.
{nuq ‘oH jar’e’ DamaSqu’bogh} also makes sense, though it might be considered stylistically indirect or evasive enough to earn you a few distrusting looks. Instead of directly telling me to identify my favorite month, you are asking me what my favorite month is.
As a longtime Klingon speaker, I’m expressing an opinion here, not backed up by any grammatical rule or requirement. To me, it sounds like, “If I, or some unidentified other person, were, hypothetically speaking, to politely request that you identify your favorite month, what, in that hypothetical setting, would your answer be?”
I’d be disinclined to answer hypothetical requests. I’d just wait for you to come out and say what you mean.
I’m sure that others would just answer you. I speak for no one but myself.
charghwI’ vaghnerya’ngan
rInpa’ bomnIS be’’a’ pI’.
On Jul 13, 2020, at 8:22 AM, mayqel qunen'oS <mihkoun@gmail.com <mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com>> wrote:
There's the following link:
http://klingonska.org/canon/1996-12-12b-news.txt <http://klingonska.org/canon/1996-12-12b-news.txt>
Where 'oqranD explains why one should say {jar DamaSqu'bogh yIngu'} instead of {jarlIj qaq nuq?} for "what is your favorite month?".
I've read this article, and I think I understand the reason why we can't say {jarlIj qaq nuq?}. But what I'm wondering is this:
If we wrote {nuq 'oH jar'e' DamaSqu'bogh} would it be as problematic as the {jarlIj qaq nuq?} ?
For ease of reference, I copy-paste here the relevant text from klingonska.
***************
You suggested translating "What is your favorite month?" as:
jarlIj qaq nuq?
This one's a little easier to deal with. Your sentence literally means "What is your preferable month?" The basic syntax is correct. Question words (in this case, nuq "what?") function the same way pronouns do in questions with "to be" in the English translations. Thus, the question yIH nuq? "What is a tribble?" is exactly parallel the statement yIH 'oH "It is a tribble" (where yIH is "tribble" and 'oH is "it"). The answer to the question yIH nuq? ("What is a tribble?") would presumably be a definition or description of a tribble. This being the case, then, the answer to the question jarlIj qaq nuq? ("What is your preferable month?") would presumably be a definition of "your favorite month." But this is not what you want to find out by asking your question. What you really mean to ask is something like "Of all the months, which one do you prefer?"
The first word in your sentence, jarlIj, means "your month" (jar "month," -lIj "your"). But given that what you're really asking is "Which month do you prefer?" it's not really "your month" at all. The "you" should go with the verb, not with "month."
Which brings us to the verb. You use qIb, "be preferable," adjectivally (jarlIj qIb is "your preferable month"). I think what you mean is better expressed by using the verb maS "prefer" with "you" as the subject: jar DamaS "you prefer the month." If you want to highlight the notion of "most prefer," you can use the emphatic suffix -qu': jar DamaSqu' "you very much prefer the month." (In this case, since "prefer" involves making a choice, the one chosen is automatically the one that is "most" preferred.)
So what about the "what" (or "which") of your original question ("What/which is your favorite month?")? When asking someone a question of this type, you are really asking him or her to make a choice. So just be a Klingon and order them to do so: "Identify the month that you very much prefer!":
jar DamaSqu'bogh yIngu'
DamaSqu'bogh "that you very much prefer" (DamaSqu' "you very much prefer it" plus -bogh "which," the relative-clause marker) modifies jar "month" and the whole phrase jar DamaSqu'bogh "the month that you very much prefer" is the object of the verb ngu' ("identify"), which is preceded by the imperative prefix yI- ("do something to it!").
***************
~ Qa'yIn _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
On 7/13/2020 10:59 AM, Will Martin wrote:
Likely, if there were simple, consistent ways to ask the other Klingon questions as commands, there wouldn’t be ANY Klingon question words. It’s quicker and simpler to ask the Klingon questions, and there is no simpler, quicker way to ask “Which”, except to command someone to identify the item in question.
You have no evidence that Klingons ask for identification by using imperative *ngu'* instead of having a question word for /which /because imperative *ngu'* is quicker and simpler. We are actually given a completely different explanation (see below). Sometimes the Klingon way is quicker and simpler, and sometimes the English way is. I do not find *jar DamaSbogh yIngu'* any quicker or simpler than /What is your favorite month//?/ We do, however, have a bit of evidence that Klingon culture has something to do with using *ngu'* where English uses /which./ Okrand says, "When asking someone a question of this type, you are really asking him or her to make a choice. So just be a Klingon and order them to do so..." This may just be a quip by Okrand, but we might also interpret it as an actual sociolinguistic explanation. But it ONLY applies to *ngu'* translating /which/ because "being Klingon" here involves ordering someone to make the choice. It doesn't apply to any other type of question. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
I still don't understand. Can I say {nuq 'oH jar'e' DamaSqu'bogh} ? Or is it wrong ? Or is it that we don't know if it's wrong or not ? ~ Qa'yIn
On 7/13/2020 11:35 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
I still don't understand.
Can I say {nuq 'oH jar'e' DamaSqu'bogh} ? Or is it wrong ? Or is it that we don't know if it's wrong or not ?
Sure, you can say that. Why not? -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
jIH:
Can I say {nuq 'oH jar'e' DamaSqu'bogh} ? Or is it wrong ? Or is it that we don't know if it's wrong or not ? SuStel: Sure, you can say that. Why not?
There's something I still can't understand. In the klingonska article, 'oqranD says:
The answer to the question yIH nuq? ("What is a tribble?") would presumably be a definition or description of a tribble. This being the case, then, the answer to the question jarlIj qaq nuq? ("What is your preferable month?") would presumably be a definition of "your favorite month." But this is not what you want to find out by asking your question. What you really mean to ask is something like "Of all the months, which one do you prefer?"
If I wrote {nuq 'oH jar'e' DamaSqu'bogh}, then couldn't we have again the same problem ? Couldn't this sentence be understood as "asking for the definition of the month which you prefer", instead of asking the listener to name the month which he prefers ? ~ Qa'yIn
On 7/14/2020 10:18 AM, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
The answer to the question yIH nuq? ("What is a tribble?") would presumably be a definition or description of a tribble. This being the case, then, the answer to the question jarlIj qaq nuq? ("What is your preferable month?") would presumably be a definition of "your favorite month." But this is not what you want to find out by asking your question. What you really mean to ask is something like "Of all the months, which one do you prefer?" If I wrote {nuq 'oH jar'e' DamaSqu'bogh}, then couldn't we have again the same problem ? Couldn't this sentence be understood as "asking for the definition of the month which you prefer", instead of asking the listener to name the month which he prefers ?
*nuq 'oH jar'e' DamaSqu'bogh? jarvam 'oH jar'e' vImaSqu'bogh.* As a noun, *nuq* just substitutes in for the answer. *nuq* can't substitute in for the answer when *nuq* is standing in for a pronoun that is playing a verb-like role. Okrand isn't saying that asking for a definition calls for different grammar than asking for a choice. He's just saying that that particular sentence,*jarlIj qaq nuq,* is formed in a way that asks for a defintion, where what the speaker really intends is a choice, something that that particular sentence doesn't support. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
Von: "mayqel qunen'oS" <mihkoun@gmail.com>
In the klingonska article, 'oqranD says:
A short note on naming sources: You have "found" the article at Klingonska, but its origin is the Usenet newsgroup, to be even more precise, the Microsoft Network expert forum. Most people call them "newsgroup message". As a side note, they are all also archived at the Klingon Language Wiki, with some more formatting for readability and including links to related topics: htp://klingon.wiki/En/Usenet The message you quoted is here: http://klingon.wiki/En/Msn_1996-12-12b
If I wrote {nuq 'oH jar'e' DamaSqu'bogh}, then couldn't we have again the same problem ? Couldn't this sentence be understood as "asking for the definition of the month which you prefer", instead of asking the listener to name the month which he prefers ?
I think the problem exists in English and other languages too. It's not a question of grammar, but a question of interpretation. Imagine a person who does not speak english very well, asking "What is your favorite month?" -- then the answer can be "My favorite month is the month which I like the most". Lieven. klingonisch.de
lieven:
A short note on naming sources: You have "found" the article at Klingonska, but its origin is the Usenet newsgroup, to be even more precise, the Microsoft Network expert forum. Most people call them "newsgroup message".
You're right; I just wrote klingonska without giving it further thought. I'll be more precise next time ! lieven:
I think the problem exists in English and other languages too. It's not a question of grammar, but a question of interpretation.
Actually, when I first read okrand's explanation on this matter, I was confused thinking "but if someone asked me {jarlIj qaq nuq?} I'd understand it as him asking me to name my favorite month, instead of defining it". At first, I didn't realize that grammar-wise, what the {jarlIj qaq nuq?} sentence actually asks for is indeed the "definition of the favorite month" instead of its' name. But luckily, after reading this thread things became clearer. ~ Qa'yIn
Don't know if this works for Qa'yIn or Lieven, but where I grew up anyways, this reminds me of how someone asking the teacher "Can I go to the bathroom?" was not the same as asking for permission, and often one did not receive the type of answer they were wanting. - DloraH On Wed, 2020-07-15 at 11:11 +0300, mayqel qunen'oS wrote:
lieven:
I think the problem exists in English and other languages too. It's not a question of grammar, but a question of interpretation.
Actually, when I first read okrand's explanation on this matter, I was confused thinking "but if someone asked me {jarlIj qaq nuq?} I'd understand it as him asking me to name my favorite month, instead of defining it".
At first, I didn't realize that grammar-wise, what the {jarlIj qaq nuq?} sentence actually asks for is indeed the "definition of the favorite month" instead of its' name.
But luckily, after reading this thread things became clearer.
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participants (5)
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DloraH -
Lieven Litaer -
mayqel qunen'oS -
SuStel -
Will Martin