While look at some canon phrases, I stumbled over a phrase from ST5: {yo'SeH yaHnIvvo' potlh De' wIHevtaH.} "We are receiving a priority message from Operations Command." I would have said {De' potlh} "important data" here. Is this an error, or is it just not much difference between "important data" and "data about something important"? -- Lieven L. Litaer aka Quvar valer 'utlh Grammarian of the KLI http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher http://www.klingonwiki.net
I would have said {De' potlh} too, but I don't think there's a significant difference in meaning. I suppose you could argue that information about an important thing might not be important in and of itself, but clearly in this context the information is also important. Maybe it's some kind of idiomatic set phrase. On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 10:40 AM, Lieven <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
While look at some canon phrases, I stumbled over a phrase from ST5: {yo'SeH yaHnIvvo' potlh De' wIHevtaH.} "We are receiving a priority message from Operations Command."
I would have said {De' potlh} "important data" here.
Is this an error, or is it just not much difference between "important data" and "data about something important"?
-- Lieven L. Litaer aka Quvar valer 'utlh Grammarian of the KLI http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher http://www.klingonwiki.net _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
Data about something important vs important data / data which is important Important data: [There is a bomb located at First and Main, set to explode at noon.] This data is important. We know when and where. Data about something important: [That bomb that is about to explode... inside there is a post-it note that says "haha".] The bomb is something important, but this data about it is not necessarily important; but none the less, this is still data... about something that is important. On Thu, 2017-08-17 at 10:49 -0400, nIqolay Q wrote:
I would have said {De' potlh} too, but I don't think there's a significant difference in meaning. I suppose you could argue that information about an important thing might not be important in and of itself, but clearly in this context the information is also important. Maybe it's some kind of idiomatic set phrase.
On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 10:40 AM, Lieven <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
While look at some canon phrases, I stumbled over a phrase from ST5: {yo'SeH yaHnIvvo' potlh De' wIHevtaH.} "We are receiving a priority message from Operations Command."
I would have said {De' potlh} "important data" here.
Is this an error, or is it just not much difference between "important data" and "data about something important"?
-- Lieven L. Litaer aka Quvar valer 'utlh Grammarian of the KLI http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher http://www.klingonwiki.net _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
Possibly it's military jargon. It is an odd phrase, but I understand {potlh De'} as an "announcement" or a flash alert. (IIRC the message was about General Koord being taken hostage on Nimbus III. ) Okrand has used {De' potlh} "important data/information" twice AFAIK: tlhIngan toQDuj Duj De' potlh Klingon Bird of Prey General Specifications (KBoP title) Marc Okrand jIH. De' potlh vIlab. I am Marc Okrand and I bring you an important message. ('U'-MTK) and the noun {potlh} "consequential thing, something important" once: tlhIngan qorDu' potlh Klingon Family Values (S13 title) After ST5 came out, {QIn} "message" appeared in KGT and was subsequently used on the special reissue ST3 DVD case, though I don't know whether Okrand was involved: Qugh la'vaD QIn pav [Urgent message for Commander Kruge. (untranslated) ] --Voragh -----Original Message----- From: Lieven While look at some canon phrases, I stumbled over a phrase from ST5: {yo'SeH yaHnIvvo' potlh De' wIHevtaH.} "We are receiving a priority message from Operations Command." I would have said {De' potlh} "important data" here. Is this an error, or is it just not much difference between "important data" and "data about something important"?
kbop title:
tlhIngan toQDuj Duj De' potlh klingon bird of prey general specifications
Isn't here the {Duj} after the {toQDuj} redundant/weird/unnecessary ? {toQDuj} by itself means "bird of prey vessel"; so why place a {Duj} after it ? S13 title:
tlhIngan qorDu' potlh Klingon Family Values
I can't understand how the english translation results from this klingon sentence. All I get is "something consequential/important of klingon family". qunnoq On Aug 17, 2017 6:10 PM, "Steven Boozer" <sboozer@uchicago.edu> wrote: Possibly it's military jargon. It is an odd phrase, but I understand {potlh De'} as an "announcement" or a flash alert. (IIRC the message was about General Koord being taken hostage on Nimbus III. ) Okrand has used {De' potlh} "important data/information" twice AFAIK: tlhIngan toQDuj Duj De' potlh Klingon Bird of Prey General Specifications (KBoP title) Marc Okrand jIH. De' potlh vIlab. I am Marc Okrand and I bring you an important message. ('U'-MTK) and the noun {potlh} "consequential thing, something important" once: tlhIngan qorDu' potlh Klingon Family Values (S13 title) After ST5 came out, {QIn} "message" appeared in KGT and was subsequently used on the special reissue ST3 DVD case, though I don't know whether Okrand was involved: Qugh la'vaD QIn pav [Urgent message for Commander Kruge. (untranslated) ] --Voragh -----Original Message----- From: Lieven While look at some canon phrases, I stumbled over a phrase from ST5: {yo'SeH yaHnIvvo' potlh De' wIHevtaH.} "We are receiving a priority message from Operations Command." I would have said {De' potlh} "important data" here. Is this an error, or is it just not much difference between "important data" and "data about something important"? _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
On 8/17/2017 11:26 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
kbop title:
tlhIngan toQDuj Duj De' potlh klingon bird of prey general specifications
Isn't here the {Duj} after the {toQDuj} redundant/weird/unnecessary ? {toQDuj} by itself means "bird of prey vessel"; so why place a {Duj} after it ?
My guess is that *De' potlh* means /important information,/ which is a very general thing, while *Duj De' potlh* would be /very important information about the ship, /i.e., /ship specifications./ Perhaps when I'm looking to order a computer I might look up the *De'wI' De' potlh*/computer specifications./
S13 title:
tlhIngan qorDu' potlh Klingon Family Values
I can't understand how the english translation results from this klingon sentence. All I get is "something consequential/important of klingon family".
Dunno. These days we'd probably say *tlhIngan qorDu' qangtlhIn,* but that last word didn't exist when the card was published. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
"Values" can mean *"*Principles or standards of behaviour; one's judgement of what is important in life." (OED: https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/value) {potlh} would imply the second half of that definition: things that are important to Klingon families. Something like {ghob} "ethics, virtue" might also work, but if you look at the rest of the card ( http://klingonska.org/canon/sbx-s13.html), it mentions things that might not fall under "ethics" per se, such as the value of the family name. On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 11:26 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
kbop title:
tlhIngan toQDuj Duj De' potlh klingon bird of prey general specifications
Isn't here the {Duj} after the {toQDuj} redundant/weird/unnecessary ? {toQDuj} by itself means "bird of prey vessel"; so why place a {Duj} after it ?
S13 title:
tlhIngan qorDu' potlh Klingon Family Values
I can't understand how the english translation results from this klingon sentence. All I get is "something consequential/important of klingon family".
qunnoq
On Aug 17, 2017 6:10 PM, "Steven Boozer" <sboozer@uchicago.edu> wrote:
Possibly it's military jargon. It is an odd phrase, but I understand {potlh De'} as an "announcement" or a flash alert. (IIRC the message was about General Koord being taken hostage on Nimbus III. )
Okrand has used {De' potlh} "important data/information" twice AFAIK:
tlhIngan toQDuj Duj De' potlh Klingon Bird of Prey General Specifications (KBoP title)
Marc Okrand jIH. De' potlh vIlab. I am Marc Okrand and I bring you an important message. ('U'-MTK)
and the noun {potlh} "consequential thing, something important" once:
tlhIngan qorDu' potlh Klingon Family Values (S13 title)
After ST5 came out, {QIn} "message" appeared in KGT and was subsequently used on the special reissue ST3 DVD case, though I don't know whether Okrand was involved:
Qugh la'vaD QIn pav [Urgent message for Commander Kruge. (untranslated) ]
--Voragh
-----Original Message----- From: Lieven
While look at some canon phrases, I stumbled over a phrase from ST5:
{yo'SeH yaHnIvvo' potlh De' wIHevtaH.} "We are receiving a priority message from Operations Command."
I would have said {De' potlh} "important data" here. Is this an error, or is it just not much difference between "important data" and "data about something important"? _______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
_______________________________________________ tlhIngan-Hol mailing list tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
Am 17.08.2017 um 17:26 schrieb mayqel qunenoS:
kbop title:
tlhIngan toQDuj Duj De' potlh klingon bird of prey general specifications
Isn't here the {Duj} after the {toQDuj} redundant/weird/unnecessary ? {toQDuj} by itself means "bird of prey vessel"; so why place a {Duj} after it ?
That could be amistake, but you can also read it like this, treating the Duj De' as on phrase: tlhIngan toQDuj [Duj De' potlh] {Duj De' potlh} = "ships specifications" of the {toQDuj} = "bird of prey class ship"
S13 title:
tlhIngan qorDu' potlh Klingon Family Values
I can't understand how the english translation results from this klingon sentence.
It's because the Klingon tranlsation resulted from the English phrase ;-)
All I get is "something consequential/important of klingon family".
That's correct. Aren't "values" something important? -- Lieven L. Litaer aka Quvar valer 'utlh Grammarian of the KLI http://www.facebook.com/Klingonteacher http://www.klingonwiki.net
On 8/17/2017 11:40 AM, Lieven wrote:
S13 title:
tlhIngan qorDu' potlh Klingon Family Values
I can't understand how the english translation results from this klingon sentence.
It's because the Klingon tranlsation resulted from the English phrase ;-)
All I get is "something consequential/important of klingon family".
That's correct. Aren't "values" something important?
Values are only a subset of important things. I wouldn't call a textbook *QeD paQDI'norgh* if it were a biology textbook. -- SuStel http://trimboli.name
On 17 August 2017 at 17:26, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
kbop title:
tlhIngan toQDuj Duj De' potlh klingon bird of prey general specifications
Isn't here the {Duj} after the {toQDuj} redundant/weird/unnecessary ? {toQDuj} by itself means "bird of prey vessel"; so why place a {Duj} after it ?
Because it changes the meaning. It's like saying "I'd like to look at this ship's personnel's personnel files" (as opposed to that other ship's personnel's personnel files) or "the High Council is reviewing Captain Kruge's captain's log" (Qugh HoD HoD QonoS), for disambiguating between the captain's log that Kruge keeps while on active duty, and his personal log or other logs which he keeps for other matters. -- De'vID
On 17 August 2017 at 16:40, Lieven <levinius@gmx.de> wrote:
While look at some canon phrases, I stumbled over a phrase from ST5: {yo'SeH yaHnIvvo' potlh De' wIHevtaH.} "We are receiving a priority message from Operations Command."
I would have said {De' potlh} "important data" here.
Obvious, this is military argot for some high-priority information in a hierarchy where the lowest level is {tu'HomI'raH De'}.
Is this an error, or is it just not much difference between "important data" and "data about something important"?
There's a subtle difference: {potlh De'} is about something important (it's about a *thing*), whereas {De' potlh} is important but not necessarily about *something*. -- De'vID
participants (7)
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De'vID -
DloraH -
Lieven -
mayqel qunenoS -
nIqolay Q -
Steven Boozer -
SuStel