Searching the web desperate for answers, I realized that our problem here isn't the {-ta'} {-taH} or {-lI'}. It is focused on the {-pu'}. So, after some digging I found these two sentences which concern the use of {-pu'}. SuStel tIlaD: 1. Perfective aspect is used in referring to an event conceived as bounded and unitary, without reference to any flow of time during ("I helped him") 2. The perfect aspect indicates that the end of the action is known and is used to emphasize the fact that the action is complete. Now, I want to ask you: 1. Do you agree with the above ? 2. If you do agree, then how would you define an event as being "bounded and unitary" ? DaH, logh DaqvamDaq ratlh buq'IrwIj 'ej jabbI'IDlIj pIH. qunnoq ghogh HablI'wIjvo' vIngeHta' On 24 Aug 2016 1:48 p.m., "mayqel qunenoS" <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
Searching the web desperate for answers, I realized that our problem here isn't the {-ta'} {-taH} or {-lI'}. It is focused on the {-pu'}.
So, after some digging I found these two sentences which concern the use of {-pu'}.
SuStel tIlaD:
1. Perfective aspect is used in referring to an event conceived as bounded and unitary, without reference to any flow of time during ("I helped him")
2. The perfect aspect indicates that the end of the action is known and is used to emphasize the fact that the action is complete.
Now, I want to ask you:
1. Do you agree with the above ?
2. If you do agree, then how would you define an event as being "bounded and unitary" ?
DaH, logh DaqvamDaq ratlh buq'IrwIj 'ej jabbI'IDlIj pIH.
qunnoq
On Wed, Aug 24, 2016 at 9:54 AM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
SuStel:
No, it needs to be completed by the action to which the verb the suffix is attached to refers. If that very verb doesn't describe the completion of the action, then the completion suffix isn't appropriate.
I didn't understand a word of this..
jIH:
the event, which is described by the aspect suffix {-pu'} must : 1. be completed 2. have stopped being in effect SuStel: No
I studied the elf-orc examples, and I can't understand why the two conditions I described aren't correct/applicable.
I don't know.. this is rather confusing. And I wonder ; even you and lieven couldn't agree on this whole "aspect matter".. And you're both grammarians/experts !
So, what hope is there for a simple guy to figure this out ?
Normally, I would throw the towel and follow in the footsteps of our good captain. However, because I'm a capricorn I can't quit !
So, this is how this will go down.. I will study on the internet about aspect in general, and after I finish I will write my conclusions. Then, we'll take it from there..
toQDujlIj ghomqa'DI' buq'IrwIj, Ser wIchav. 'e' vItul..
qunnoq
On Tue, Aug 23, 2016 at 9:21 PM, mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
maj SuStel !
wa'leS, mu'meylIj vIpoj ! DaH, whisky vItlhutlhta'mo' 'ej jIDoy'mo', jIQongnIS ! murIt QongDaqwIj..
jIQongtaHvIS, nIyma'pu' vIleghbe'. 'e' vItul !
qunnoq ghogh HablI'vo aah who cares..
On 23 Aug 2016 8:35 p.m., "SuStel" <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
On 8/23/2016 11:56 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
SuStel:
That's your error. During the "once," they were still elves. When it was "once," being elves wasn't completed.
hmm.. Perhaps I'm beginning to understand. So you're saying that the event, which is described by the aspect suffix {-pu'} must :
1. be completed 2. have stopped being in effect
right ?
No, it needs to be completed by the action to which the verb the
suffix is
attached to refers. If that very verb doesn't describe the completion of the action, then the completion suffix isn't appropriate.
Suppose I was an elf yesterday and I'm an orc today.
wa'Hu' elf jIH I was an elf yesterday. During yesterday, I was being an elf. I didn't complete being an elf during yesterday. I completed being an elf after yesterday, but I didn't say DorDI' wa'Hu', I said wa'Hu'. So being an elf was completed, but it wasn't completed during yesterday.
wa'Hu' elf jIHpu' I was (and completed being) an elf yesterday. During yesterday, I was and elf and then my being an elf was complete. I stopped being an elf during yesterday, though I had been one before that.
-- SuStel http://trimboli.name
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